Training animals for sex

pes

Neighborhood Watcher
Staff member
1. Training animals for sex.
2. Preventing animals from requesting sex in awkward moments.

1. Training animals for sex with people:
This question does come up from time to time and people often have different opinions about it.
I am going to present an explanation of what it means to train animals for sex and why it is wrong to train animal to have sex with people.

Training/teaching animals to obey commands is most often used to make an animal perform certain behavior/action at the time you want and regardless of what the animal wants. This can be very useful and sometimes necessary in many situations. Sex is not one of them.

Animals in captivity are routinely taught to let a human inspect their body parts, they can be taught to let someone take a blood sample, brush their teeth, clean their ears, trim their nails... Most of these actions are unpleasant or even painful. If you have ever taught a dog to have their nails trimmed, you know it is not exactly pure pleasure for him/her and it can even be very painful.
These behaviors can be taught using positive reinforcement methods - a tasty treat if it is done right.

The animal withstands the unpleasant part because there will be a reward in the end.

Why is this wrong in sex:
Sex between a human and an animal must be consensual and should ideally be initiated by the animal. When the animal asks for sex first, you have ultimate proof of consent.
If you use treats, peanut butter, commands, or any training methods to make an animal have sex with you or anyone else, you will loose valuable feedback from the animal and you may end up doing something against the animal's will unknowingly or even worse, knowingly.
The animal withstands the (potentially) unpleasant (sex) part because there will be a reward in the end.

You may argue that the sex is the reward and thus this is no different from teaching an animal to have sex on command.
This assumption is incorrect.

If the animal does it on their own and thus has a choice and is allowed to express their opinion (is not doing it on command), the feedback is preserved, the animal is not withstanding it and has a freedom to stop if he/she decides to do so, without any adverse consequences for them.

If it is done on command, it means the animal is taught to perform the behavior until you are satisfied with the result, this may require withstanding discomfort.
While the reward mechanism in the brain may work similarly, if the action is performed on command from a master/owner a failure to complete the action is perceived by the animal as bad or potentially even punishable (by not receiving the reward or even getting a physical punishment) and thus the choice to stop or refuse is taken away from the animal.

2. Preventing animals from requesting sex in awkward moments:
This question also comes up fairly often, so here is how you do it.

People are often going to advice you to use a specific blanket, room or clothes only at the time you want to have sex with your dog.

Here is the problem. The approach of not training animals for sex mentioned above is meant to allow the animal to give consent by allowing the animal to ask for sex. While both you and the animal have the right to refuse.

The blanket approach puts solely you into the position of asking for sex. The animal is not allowed to ask for sex or show any intention to do so outside of the allowed moment when the clothes/blanket come out.

If the animal then has sex with you and you reward that behavior by either treats or verbal praise used for training, you are training the behavior.
If the animal does not want sex when you roll out your blanket, there are people who will be disappointed and keep shoving the blanket into the animal's face until sex finally happens.
It goes something like this:
"I am horny I want sex."
Out goes the blanket.
"Here is the blanket Rex, lets have sex!"
Dog is not in the mood.
"Here is the blanket Rex, lets have sex!!"
Dog lifts up head.
"Here is the blanket Rex, lets have sex!!!"
Dog lifts up his body.
"Good boy Rex, come here to the blanket!"
"Here is your favorite treat."

At this point your dog does not have a choice and does what he does because there is a reward. Sex with the use of a trigger like this becomes a potentially punishable command that is performed when you want and may be simply endured by the animal without the ability to refuse. If the dog refuses, there is no treat and you become agitated which is the punishment.

To prevent your dog from asking for sex in inappropriate moments you should realize a few things:
1. A dog mounting your leg is normal, dogs do that and it is not immediately going to tell everyone you are a zoo. A common person does not make this connection. It is your paranoia and fear that does it for you.
2. You are not breaking your dog by refusing sex. A female dog may refuse a male quite vocally and with jaws snapping and nothing bad happens. Mating can be accepted as well as rejected and it is expected.
3. If your dog comes up with a specific method of asking for sex which often happens, chances are you are the only person who understand that hint. Nobody is going to suspect you from being zoo when your dog places a paw on your thigh.

So to refuse you either:

1. Ignore the request until the dog gives up.
2. Take the dog off you or remove your leg from his grip.
3. Calmly refusing him with a no.

To limit mounting in inappropriate moments, it is much easier to keep your dog sexually satisfied. Jerk him off before you have a visit and jerk him off every other day (if he wants to) and you are going to limit his sexual advances in inappropriate moments to basically nothing. On top of that he will be tired and calmer during your visit. This is much more easily manageable than keeping a dog sexually frustrated for a week and stressing about inappropriate mounting outside of your safe room.

The calming effect of masturbation is very visible and undeniable and used by professional dog handlers before dog shows or work for working dogs. So you can even tell your family or partners that for exactly this reason you are going to learn how to jerk your dog off and do it regularly. Now you do not have to hide your dog's sexual behavior at all.
 
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satsuma

Guest
what would be the natural way to show the animal you're interested in them?
of course, I agree with everything you said! just thinking about how disappointed i might be if i got the land, set up the whole place for some livestock companions, only for none of them to be interested.
 

HugDoggy

Citizen of Zooville
what would be the natural way to show the animal you're interested in them?
of course, I agree with everything you said! just thinking about how disappointed i might be if i got the land, set up the whole place for some livestock companions, only for none of them to be interested.

That none of the animals you bring onto your property wish to have sex with a human is a possibility, that is life unfortunately.

While having the animal making the first move is obviously preferred. Some species like dogs and horse are more domesticated than others, having been bred for many years as companions animals as well as perform other roles for us. I would take a slightly different approach. What I will call non verbal human requested sex from an animal. So lets talk about 3 species Cattle, Alpacas and dogs. Before we start this is only my opinion and you need to have a basic understanding of the body language of the species involved. And you must respect the feed back you are getting from the animal.

Lets start with the example a male dog: (The direct approach) You gently rub his sheath and he spread his back legs a little and remains standing still or humps slightly. I would class this as a green light that he had no objections. If he put his head down and started licking his lips or pulled his ears right back or pulled his tail down between his legs trying to cover his genitals but remained standing there. This is a amber/yellow light and you really should be stopping because he is putting up with it because your his human and he likes you. If he growls or snaps his jaws or simply walks off this is a red light and he is saying a most defined NO! Note the dog is not restrained in any way so he is able to walk away which is the most polite thing he can do. Growling or snapping at your human should be a last resort and it usually results in punishment, such as a time out or similar so if a dog is force to pull out that card they really don't like the position they were being put in.

Right now lets step up a size class or two, to an animal comparable to human in strength but still able to be restrained with difficulty if things go wrong. From this size animal and up you need to teach them that you both must consent to sex. As if they run up behind you and crash you down it's going to hurt.
So for this example of non verbal human requesting sex from an animal (Be the animal) This time the partner is a male alpaca, you don't really look like or even smell like a female alpaca; so why should he possibly think that you would be good to have sex with. All animals have behavious or smells that are associated with being receptive to sex. In this case he is expecting to see two things: 1) To approach near to him and pee on the ground in front of him. 2) Fold your legs under yourself and sit on the ground close to where you have peed facing away from him and when he starts his courtship song you glance over your shoulder at him briefly without making direct eye contact, to signify you accept him. If you do all these behaviours exactly as he expects to see them (acting as if you were the animal his brain is wired for.) there is a good chance you will be bred. However as I stated earlier you both need to consent because once he has done it once he may suddenly see you as an easy lay whenever he is horny, which can be a problem if your just out checking a water trough in the front paddock next to the road. So you must not put up with pushy behaviour, because sex itself can be a reward just as much as a food treat. So if you want it to happen slowly walk to a more suitable place and perform the correct behaviours for him. DO NOT just drop your pants immediately following pushy behaviour you will be teaching him bad manners that could see you get hurt. If you don't want sex gently but firmly push him away. This does not have to be a physical push either taking a rapid step directly towards a lot of prey animals, is seen as a sign of aggression or dissatisfaction and will often make your point without needing to touch the animal at all.

Now for our final example lets jump up another few size classes to an animal that is far stronger than a human and will not be able to be restrained if something goes wrong and you will be hurt.
For our last example lets make the partner a bull (Be the animal - with in reason). So just like with the alpaca example you can carry out the behaviours the animal is expecting to see such as peeing and bending over slightly presenting your rear and standing firm with you legs spread in front of him. ( DON'T DO THIS! It's just an example of what the bull is expecting to see)

Ok so as before you can give him the come on by walking the walk and talking the talk, but in this size class unless it's a small breed bull, he is just going to squash you into the dirt or put you into hospital. When dealing with larger animals like cattle your safety should be utmost in your mind because if he gets the hints you are giving him and he gets aroused you might be starting something you can't handle. As such the sexual act must match your ability to handle your side of the arrangement. whether that be the weight of a bull or the girth of a stallions penis. at the end of the day don't start something with a big animal that you can't see all the way through safely. not only is it dangerous because you could be hurt and that's not just from the boys either, getting pinned and crushed against a shed wall by a cow who wants more length than your penis has to offer her, can also be a problem. But starting something you don't finish can lead to sexual frustration in the animal which can make them unpredictable. So learn the body language of the animal and listen to what they are telling you. If your not making love in an open paddock by moon light, always give the animal a clear path to escape that doesn't involve going through you, should they not be interested in your attentions. Where possible keep something solid between you and them if your activities involve being behind them. If you have been reading their body language correctly there shouldn't be a problem and they will just stand for you. Letting you handle them in ways that brings them pleasure. Rule one of being around large animals is NEVER get yourself between the animal and a solid object.
I talked a lot about safety in this one and not so much about getting them to make the first move. That is because sex is never worth being hurt or killed for. They are much bigger and stronger than you, so don't forget that if you are going to give the animal the choice to say yes or no and not restraining them you need to plan ahead for both success and failure. A normally quiet animal can become completely different when they get horny. I have a steel rod in my leg because a bull 10x my body weight had too energetic a version of foreplay one evening in the cattle yards.

In all cases a good general relationship with the animal should always come before attempting anything sexual with the animal. Don't force coerce or bribe an animal for sex, if you make the first move listen to what they are telling you and be prepare to stop immediately if they are not interested or show any sort of signs of distress. What works for one species may not work for another so know your lover to ensure they love what you are doing with them.
 
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satsuma

Guest

Oh thanks! This seems to be mostly in regards to me taking it from the animal, but I was also wondering what it was like the other way around, i.e. penetrating a female animal or anal with a male (unlikely). The way males court can look like harassment so would I even want to "be the animal" in that case?
 

HugDoggy

Citizen of Zooville
Oh thanks! This seems to be mostly in regards to me taking it from the animal, but I was also wondering what it was like the other way around, i.e. penetrating a female animal or anal with a male (unlikely). The way males court can look like harassment so would I even want to "be the animal" in that case?

That depends on the species, some animals can get rather aggressive in the way they go about things which is one of the reasons it can be dangerous to be taking it from a male animal. I seen alpaca matings that look like straight up rape, but don't forget that where the courtship can be rough in some species the females have often evolve counter measures to help in some of these situations. For the most part with big animals no you can't be the animal when your pretending to be the male; simply because you don't measure up, and I'm not talking about penis size. What I mean is sheer body weight to be able to walk the walk, and be able to give and take the bumps and nudges that some big animals do when trying to get the favour of a female or in throwing their weight around to try and make the male think twice.

Luckly a lot of girls can be won over just with developing a close bond and making them at ease and comfortable with you presence and your gentle touches. When you begin though sometime you do still need do your best to replicate some of the behaviours of the male all the same.

I once spent a pleasant evening with a cow and I had a little step ladder so I could reach my mark. The trouble was every time I would penetrate her she would take a tiny step forward and then a second later she moved back. Which really confused me as to what she was trying to tell me, did she want me to keep going or was she saying no. Anyway this happened a few times then I sort of flopped over her back deciding just to be content in staying still inside that heavenly warmth. To my surprise she pushed back into me and stood firm while I started to hump her building up to a fairly hard pounding. It seemed in the case of this particular girl she needed to feel some weight on her hind end (like when a bull jumped her) for something in her brain to click.

So in short males will often make the first move if you display the behaviours they are expecting to see. But girls need to be treated like a lady and may require some fine dining on that really juicy grass and some foreplay before you'll get a green light. Oh and being in heat/estrus also doesn't hurt. :gsd_wink:
 
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satsuma

Guest
All great advice and very nice example, thank you! I also read somewhere that holding an animal's rump is more akin to what a predator would do as opposed to a mate who usually has its front legs around the body which is interesting. The mention of close bonds, being comfortable in your presence and gentle touches, and heavenly warmth, so cute and loving!
 

HugDoggy

Citizen of Zooville
All great advice and very nice example, thank you! I also read somewhere that holding an animal's rump is more akin to what a predator would do as opposed to a mate who usually has its front legs around the body which is interesting. The mention of close bonds, being comfortable in your presence and gentle touches, and heavenly warmth, so cute and loving!
Some animals have a normal body temperature a bit warmer than a human; so there really is no other way to describe what it feels like balls deep in a lady of one of those species other than heavenly. :gsd_happysmile:
 

Farmponies

Citizen of Zooville
That depends on the species, some animals can get rather aggressive in the way they go about things which is one of the reasons it can be dangerous to be taking it from a male animal. I seen alpaca matings that look like straight up rape, but don't forget that where the courtship can be rough in some species the females have often evolve counter measures to help in some of these situations. For the most part with big animals no you can't be the animal when your pretending to be the male; simply because you don't measure up, and I'm not talking about penis size. What I mean is sheer body weight to be able to walk the walk, and be able to give and take the bumps and nudges that some big animals do when trying to get the favour of a female or in throwing their weight around to try and make the male think twice.

Luckly a lot of girls can be won over just with developing a close bond and making them at ease and comfortable with you presence and your gentle touches. When you begin though sometime you do still need do your best to replicate some of the behaviours of the male all the same.

I once spent a pleasant evening with a cow and I had a little step ladder so I could reach my mark. The trouble was every time I would penetrate her she would take a tiny step forward and then a second later she moved back. Which really confused me as to what she was trying to tell me, did she want me to keep going or was she saying no. Anyway this happened a few times then I sort of flopped over her back deciding just to be content in staying still inside that heavenly warmth. To my surprise she pushed back into me and stood firm while I started to hump her building up to a fairly hard pounding. It seemed in the case of this particular girl she needed to feel some weight on her hind end (like when a bull jumped her) for something in her brain to click.

So in short males will often make the first move if you display the behaviours they are expecting to see. But girls need to be treated like a lady and may require some fine dining on that really juicy grass and some foreplay before you'll get a green light. Oh and being in heat/estrus also doesn't hurt. :gsd_wink:
Yes ..I found that too...some cows like some weight on them and it is almost necessary when mounting heifers........
Sows love you to lie on her back just like the boar does..
 

AriesAngyl

Esteemed Citizen of ZV
Every relationship and every animal I think would be a little different. I know with my German Shepard, I got him when he was just a little pup with no intention of anything any sort of sexual relationship with him. As he grew up and we continued to play and become close that was when he started to show sexual behaviors towards me.

in a way, I kinda let him be the lead, I would play and explore and touch and all that and let him nuzzle and sniff based on his interest. Things developed organically and it has been an intense and amazing experience
 
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HugDoggy

Citizen of Zooville
Dud yo? ever have sex with a male dog?.....most of them need training and some never learn.
Say what? If an entire dog is comfortable around you, sees you as part of their pack and you don't say "give me sex right now", sooner or later he will put a paw on you. How you react to this will determine what happens next most non-zoos are like get off you pervert pup. Nope I don't have time for this before work this morning, but basically some dogs don't want sex and that is their right, but all dogs come with humping instructions built in, but it's just as much about your relationship with the dog outside the bedroom as inside it, for them to feel they can act on their desires.
 

Farmponies

Citizen of Zooville
you're doing something wrong if you feel like "most of them need training". do feral/stray dogs mostly just die out in your books since noone trained them how to have sex?
Not talking about dog on dog sex....most of them get the hang of it.....but........training them for sex with humans is what is in question.
 

tnstudguy

Tourist
I'm curious as to people's thoughts about stallions. Most stallions never initiate sex with humans without some kind of convincing from the human.

Lots of stallions don't like their privates touched, for example, but if you "train" them to allow it they soon realize they enjoy it. Treats are not always even necessary to achieve this. I have seen studs that would kick or bite when you try to touch their genitals. In a short period of time they will usually end up insisting that your rub their penis or balls because in the training they got over the fear and realized it was pleasurable. Without some training these boys would go through life with the notion that humans touching their private areas is a bad thing. Training is not always command and respond. Training is often working through fear or discomfort and coming out the other side with that fear replaced by pleasure and happiness.

Then you have the teasing with a mare in heat or mare's urine to get them aroused. Most studs will never respond to a human without utilizing a mare at first. That said, most of them will pretty quickly get sweet on you after teasing them with the scent of mare's urine on you and eventually you won't need the mare scent. This could be considered training. Lots of gentle stallions will get an erection and masturbate from general petting on the face or body but they still will not try sex with you. The erection is just an endorphin response from the pleasure of petting. Some bridge is uaually required to get his sex hormones responding to YOUR scent. Mare's urine is usually that bridge.

In my experience the above examples are the two most common scenarios with stallions. I don't believe it is unethical to "train" them this way. I consider it courtship. I have observed that a stallion does not usually know that a human can be a lover but when you help them to realize this they are then happy and willing sexual partners. It goes like this....

Human: "Hey big boy. Let me show you something."

Stud: "What the heck?!? What are you doing???"

Human: "Trust me buddy. I won't hurt you. Wait for it..."

Stud: "I don't understand... I... I... ooooooh. OOOOOH!!! WOW! I didn't know that was a thing. Do it again please!"

Horses are not like dogs at all. They are born with an innate distrust in predators and they know humans are predators from birth. Some are easier to convince than others but in any case almost all stallions take some convincing to trust humans regardless of a sexual relationship. No young horny untamed stallion is EVER going to want to approach a human for sex. He is more likely to kill you instead.

Finally, I can say from experience that the resulting sexual response from a stallion that has been successfully courted is not a trained response. It become his honest from the heart feeling. The training was not command and respond it was rapport and relationship building.
 

Zalanthe

Citizen of Zooville
I'm curious as to people's thoughts about stallions. Most stallions never initiate sex with humans without some kind of convincing from the human.
Here are my thoughts on it, if you care for them.
There are some distinctions that need to be made in what is and isn't a treat I feel. The simplest way to see it is, that a treat is something that can be roughly analogous to candy, such as particular food items or the likes, the person, animal, whatever, knows what the treat is, and has a formed experience that it likes that thing and considers it a treat. Opposite to treats from our perspective, we have tools. Like tools of war or industry, what they do for us is improve a function beyond what we otherwise could, or enable options/actions that we aren't naturally capable of. Packing the example into the question, while weighing it against what I just wrote about treats, you cannot send the chemical signals a horse can, because you're not a horse, but using something like the urine to compensate for that inability makes it a tool to you. But it doesn't become a treat, because say if you raised the horse yourself, may not have any previous experience with that scent, but despite this it still works. Because instead of being a treat, it is a signal that informs the horse about something being a treat the same way the taste of nice food would. You don't bribe him with it, but instead it lets you speak a single sentence in fluent horse that you couldn't communicate otherwise, and in turn, the message the signal sends tells him that you are the treat, because thats how he is hardcoded by biology to interpret it, rather than positive-reinforcement.

But that is also entirely separate from gaining his trust. Going by a friend's experience, you can signal with as much mare pee as you want, but if the horse isn't closely bonded with you and incredibly comfortable in the given moment, you're likely to see no results at all. In my opinion, you shouldn't even attempt it unless you raised him almost from birth. I've been with mine from day one, and spend a lot of time with him, seeing him everyday of every week. You'll need that much closeness not only to get anywhere sexually with a modicum of success, but also to have as much of a normal life beside it as possible. Horses aren't stupid, and they can understand and expect things to a remarkable extent. What they naturally expect is those they consider family to be around at all times. So if you want to protect your horse's well-being, while also being able to be away for a day or two, you'll need a way to tell them that, and use positive reinforcement to guide their understanding of it.

If you get to the point of having intercourse, you may want to have a way to tell him to stop. This is where training him 'for sex' can be said plainly, although it is more a training for 'how to' than 'who to' or 'when to'. You can't move a horse like you can a dog, and you shouldn't(for your own safety) expect him to understand any sound you make, the way you mean. The only way you can tell him is the binary of positive-reinforcement, and building that kind of bridge with any animal, but especially a horse, is key to being around them safely. By the previous steps we've dealt with overcoming human limitations. Here it's more about the horse's limitations in relation to you. A horse is bigger than you, and it cannot sense you the way another person can, so for your safety you need to teach it a signal and not just what it means, but what it should do in that situation, like a sudden, soul-rending pain in your vagina mid intercourse or the likes. The training is not to teach it to 'perform sex' but to stop immediately and back away. If something bad happens just at the start, it won't matter how fast your or any horse can climax, a couple more thrusts can mean the difference between an embarrasing and traumatizing trip to the hospital, and dying, plus crushing your horse's heart in doing so. Horses do have a rather strong response to loss, like most social animals, so you probably want to avoid dying under him. Anyone with expectations for dogs, or I may even be smug and say men, may think it's utterly impossible to make him stop in the middle of it, but horses are prey animals, so they are prepared to stop to flee a predator at any time. However I don't imagine just using that reflex outright is wise, because the only thing that would be worse than have him keep going, is having him panick and thrust himself away from you, because of a perceived looming threat. So your only option is to train him thoroughly and carefully, you may not get do-overs here.

Apologies for not exactly being concise.
 

HugDoggy

Citizen of Zooville
Here are my thoughts on it, if you care for them.
There are some distinctions that need to be made in what is and isn't a treat I feel. The simplest way to see it is, that a treat is something that can be roughly analogous to candy, such as particular food items or the likes, the person, animal, whatever, knows what the treat is, and has a formed experience that it likes that thing and considers it a treat. Opposite to treats from our perspective, we have tools. Like tools of war or industry, what they do for us is improve a function beyond what we otherwise could, or enable options/actions that we aren't naturally capable of. Packing the example into the question, while weighing it against what I just wrote about treats, you cannot send the chemical signals a horse can, because you're not a horse, but using something like the urine to compensate for that inability makes it a tool to you. But it doesn't become a treat, because say if you raised the horse yourself, may not have any previous experience with that scent, but despite this it still works. Because instead of being a treat, it is a signal that informs the horse about something being a treat the same way the taste of nice food would. You don't bribe him with it, but instead it lets you speak a single sentence in fluent horse that you couldn't communicate otherwise, and in turn, the message the signal sends tells him that you are the treat, because thats how he is hardcoded by biology to interpret it, rather than positive-reinforcement.

But that is also entirely separate from gaining his trust. Going by a friend's experience, you can signal with as much mare pee as you want, but if the horse isn't closely bonded with you and incredibly comfortable in the given moment, you're likely to see no results at all. In my opinion, you shouldn't even attempt it unless you raised him almost from birth. I've been with mine from day one, and spend a lot of time with him, seeing him everyday of every week. You'll need that much closeness not only to get anywhere sexually with a modicum of success, but also to have as much of a normal life beside it as possible. Horses aren't stupid, and they can understand and expect things to a remarkable extent. What they naturally expect is those they consider family to be around at all times. So if you want to protect your horse's well-being, while also being able to be away for a day or two, you'll need a way to tell them that, and use positive reinforcement to guide their understanding of it.

If you get to the point of having intercourse, you may want to have a way to tell him to stop. This is where training him 'for sex' can be said plainly, although it is more a training for 'how to' than 'who to' or 'when to'. You can't move a horse like you can a dog, and you shouldn't(for your own safety) expect him to understand any sound you make, the way you mean. The only way you can tell him is the binary of positive-reinforcement, and building that kind of bridge with any animal, but especially a horse, is key to being around them safely. By the previous steps we've dealt with overcoming human limitations. Here it's more about the horse's limitations in relation to you. A horse is bigger than you, and it cannot sense you the way another person can, so for your safety you need to teach it a signal and not just what it means, but what it should do in that situation, like a sudden, soul-rending pain in your vagina mid intercourse or the likes. The training is not to teach it to 'perform sex' but to stop immediately and back away. If something bad happens just at the start, it won't matter how fast your or any horse can climax, a couple more thrusts can mean the difference between an embarrasing and traumatizing trip to the hospital, and dying, plus crushing your horse's heart in doing so. Horses do have a rather strong response to loss, like most social animals, so you probably want to avoid dying under him. Anyone with expectations for dogs, or I may even be smug and say men, may think it's utterly impossible to make him stop in the middle of it, but horses are prey animals, so they are prepared to stop to flee a predator at any time. However I don't imagine just using that reflex outright is wise, because the only thing that would be worse than have him keep going, is having him panick and thrust himself away from you, because of a perceived looming threat. So your only option is to train him thoroughly and carefully, you may not get do-overs here.

Apologies for not exactly being concise.
That was well said, and brevity isn't critical when explaining something properly in terms anyone can understand. Trust and their comfort with you is an important thing to have with any animal, but with an animal that is far larger than you it becomes critical. Which raises the question how would you teach them to stop before they orgasm if something goes wrong, with out destroying that relationship, or at the very least scaring the animal and risking them panicking and making things worse?

I hope such a question doesn't put you on the spot to much; I realise this would probably not be a quick process, and know that all animals are slightly different in their behaviours and reactions, but it is knowledge like what you seem to have that could really help save somebody one day.
 

Zalanthe

Citizen of Zooville
That was well said, and brevity isn't critical when explaining something properly in terms anyone can understand. Trust and their comfort with you is an important thing to have with any animal, but with an animal that is far larger than you it becomes critical. Which raises the question how would you teach them to stop before they orgasm if something goes wrong, with out destroying that relationship, or at the very least scaring the animal and risking them panicking and making things worse?

I hope such a question doesn't put you on the spot to much; I realise this would probably not be a quick process, and know that all animals are slightly different in their behaviours and reactions, but it is knowledge like what you seem to have that could really help save somebody one day.
The best way to teach that kind of thing is by using something you've already taught him, in my experience anyway. Around here, traffic and nature has a lot of points where they intersect, so he's been taught to halt and step back when tapped in a certain way, as it couldn't be by sound, since a loud car or motorcycle might make him unable to hear me making any verbal cue for it. I later taught him to respond the same way to a loud snapping click, whenever he sticks his face somewhere it doesn't belong while we're out and about in places he doesn't know. Safest way to adapt it further is to practice it without putting yourself in harms way at the same time. (Which I didn't do and that was unwise, but I got there in the end). It's really no different from teaching your horse any other commands, as horses can't understand any words you say, but they can hear the sound and recognise it. I picked the snapper because I can strap it to the palm of my hand and the sound reaches better when walking around in a forest, than my weak voice does. I was also around fifteen when I got him, hence I never had the choice to make very strong physical cues at him in a flash, but you might be, and you may end up using that when teaching him more basic things. Just keep in mind that you want whatever you do to be a signal you can reliably send when you are at a complete physical disadvantage, without reins to tug at or being ontop of his back.

There's still an element of case by case. I couldn't tell you if the reason it works is because he learned it to know to avoid cars, which means danger, or if simply teaching a stallion to stop would to the trick, that's horse psychology, and I'm not licensed. Which is why you should never try this with a horse that you haven't gotten to know from almost day one and know how well he is taught. You also shouldn't use it for just plain telling your horse to stand still in my opinion. It should be something that means something is off and he needs to stop whatever he is doing, embedding a meaning of urgency though a fickle process, will likely decide how much priority the command gets. It's no different from a child, where if you use something that signals importance leisurely, it loses its gravity, and the meaning starts being regarded more casually. And like a child, it also means you got to work, work, and work on these things all the time, and figure out how you will do it yourself. There's no right signal or way to teach it, and a lot of other ways may get you to the same goal, or work better for a given horse's personal attitude.

An important thing I want people to be aware that also like a child, there may be times early on where your horse disregards your warnings before it really understands either what you're trying to say, or what your signal means, especially if you're adding a new one. Maybe he doesn't get that you don't want him going close to the electric fence near a field and does it anyway. You need to be cautious, but you also need to allow your horse to make mistakes. It's a fine line that requires good judgement, and you need to decide when you let him do something dumb for the sake of finding out that it is indeed dumb, and when you close the gap to stop him. I can imagine a lot of people with differing opinions might not like that idea, but in my opinion it is a fact of how all animals work and manage their environment, and you can't really get around it.
 
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tnstudguy

Tourist
Here are my thoughts on it, if you care for them.
There are some distinctions that need to be made in what is and isn't a treat I feel. The simplest way to see it is, that a treat is something that can be roughly analogous to candy, such as particular food items or the likes, the person, animal, whatever, knows what the treat is, and has a formed experience that it likes that thing and considers it a treat. Opposite to treats from our perspective, we have tools. Like tools of war or industry, what they do for us is improve a function beyond what we otherwise could, or enable options/actions that we aren't naturally capable of. Packing the example into the question, while weighing it against what I just wrote about treats, you cannot send the chemical signals a horse can, because you're not a horse, but using something like the urine to compensate for that inability makes it a tool to you. But it doesn't become a treat, because say if you raised the horse yourself, may not have any previous experience with that scent, but despite this it still works. Because instead of being a treat, it is a signal that informs the horse about something being a treat the same way the taste of nice food would. You don't bribe him with it, but instead it lets you speak a single sentence in fluent horse that you couldn't communicate otherwise, and in turn, the message the signal sends tells him that you are the treat, because thats how he is hardcoded by biology to interpret it, rather than positive-reinforcement.

But that is also entirely separate from gaining his trust. Going by a friend's experience, you can signal with as much mare pee as you want, but if the horse isn't closely bonded with you and incredibly comfortable in the given moment, you're likely to see no results at all. In my opinion, you shouldn't even attempt it unless you raised him almost from birth. I've been with mine from day one, and spend a lot of time with him, seeing him everyday of every week. You'll need that much closeness not only to get anywhere sexually with a modicum of success, but also to have as much of a normal life beside it as possible. Horses aren't stupid, and they can understand and expect things to a remarkable extent. What they naturally expect is those they consider family to be around at all times. So if you want to protect your horse's well-being, while also being able to be away for a day or two, you'll need a way to tell them that, and use positive reinforcement to guide their understanding of it.

If you get to the point of having intercourse, you may want to have a way to tell him to stop. This is where training him 'for sex' can be said plainly, although it is more a training for 'how to' than 'who to' or 'when to'. You can't move a horse like you can a dog, and you shouldn't(for your own safety) expect him to understand any sound you make, the way you mean. The only way you can tell him is the binary of positive-reinforcement, and building that kind of bridge with any animal, but especially a horse, is key to being around them safely. By the previous steps we've dealt with overcoming human limitations. Here it's more about the horse's limitations in relation to you. A horse is bigger than you, and it cannot sense you the way another person can, so for your safety you need to teach it a signal and not just what it means, but what it should do in that situation, like a sudden, soul-rending pain in your vagina mid intercourse or the likes. The training is not to teach it to 'perform sex' but to stop immediately and back away. If something bad happens just at the start, it won't matter how fast your or any horse can climax, a couple more thrusts can mean the difference between an embarrasing and traumatizing trip to the hospital, and dying, plus crushing your horse's heart in doing so. Horses do have a rather strong response to loss, like most social animals, so you probably want to avoid dying under him. Anyone with expectations for dogs, or I may even be smug and say men, may think it's utterly impossible to make him stop in the middle of it, but horses are prey animals, so they are prepared to stop to flee a predator at any time. However I don't imagine just using that reflex outright is wise, because the only thing that would be worse than have him keep going, is having him panick and thrust himself away from you, because of a perceived looming threat. So your only option is to train him thoroughly and carefully, you may not get do-overs here.

Apologies for not exactly being concise.
This is brilliant!
 

Ruben

Esteemed Citizen of ZV
Lets start with the example a male dog: (The direct approach) You gently rub his sheath and he spread his back legs a little and remains standing still or humps slightly. I would class this as a green light that he had no objections.
You can be less direct by rubbing/fondling his chest and belly in front of the sheath. Then it is up to him to literally make the next step into sexual territory.

Nothing is sexier than a self-confident male dog who courts or simply tries to mount without having gotten an offer though.
 

HugDoggy

Citizen of Zooville
The best way to teach that kind of thing is by using something you've already taught him, in my experience anyway. Around here, traffic and nature has a lot of points where they intersect, he's been taught to halt and step back when tapped in a certain way, as it couldn't be by sound, since a loud car or motorcycle might make him unable to hear me making any verbal cue for it. I later taught him to respond the same way to a loud snapping click, whenever he sticks his face somewhere it doesn't belong while we're out and about in places he don't know. Safest way to adapt it further is to practice it without putting yourself in harms way at the same time. (Which I didn't do and that was unwise, but I got there in the end). It's really no different from teaching your horse any other commands, as horses can't understand any words you say, but they can hear the sound and recognise it. I picked the snapper because I can strap it to the palm of my hand and the sound reaches better when walking around in a forest, than my weak voice does. I was also around fifteen when I got him, hence I never had the choice to make very strong physical cues at him in a flash, but you might be, and you may end up using that when teaching him more basic things. Just keep in mind that you want whatever you do to be a signal you can reliably send when you are at a complete physical disadvantage, without reins to tug at or being ontop of his back.

There's still an element of case by case. I couldn't tell you if the reason it works is because he learned it to know to avoid cars, which means danger, or if simply teaching a stallion to stop would to the trick, that's horse psychology, and I'm not licensed. Which is why you should never try this with a horse that you haven't gotten to know from almost day one and know how well he is taught. You also shouldn't use it for just plain telling your horse to stand still in my opinion. It should be something that means something is off and he needs to stop whatever he is doing, embedding a meaning of urgency though a fickle process, will likely decide how much priority the command gets. It's no different from a child, where if you use something that signals importance leisurely, it loses its gravity, and the meaning starts being regarded more casually. And like a child, it also means you got to work, work, and work on these things all the time, and figure out how you will do it yourself. There's no right signal or way to teach it, and a lot of other ways may get you to the same goal, or work better for a given horse's personal attitude.

An important thing I want people to be aware that also like a child, there may be times early on where your horse disregards your warnings before it really understands either way you're trying to say, or what your signal means, especially if you're adding a new one. Maybe he doesn't get that you don't want him going close to the electric fence near a field and does it anyway. You need to be cautious, but you also need to allow your horse to make mistakes. It's a fine line that requires good judgement, and you need to decide when you let him do something dumb for the sake of finding out that it is indeed dumb, and when you close the gap to stop him. I can imagine a lot of people with differing opinions might not like that idea, but in my opinion it is a fact of how all animals work and manage their environment, and you can't really get around it.
Ok, yeah that makes sense, it's sort of like on the very rare occasions my dog is about to be in real danger for some reason, like I dropped a glass on the floor or something and he wanders out to see what the noise was, and I yell STOP. Since I never yell at him normally the command carries weight and it gets his attention, making him far more likely to obey. In comparison I had a boss that would constantly be yelling at his dog, and the dog was just like, yeah my human is just loud I don't really need to listen or do what they want if I don't feel like it. Which obviously is not a good thing in an emergency. And yes sometimes you need to let them see or experience what happens if they ignore your warning, your mentioning of an electric fence is a good example of this, as is them disobeying and stealing an item of spicy food off the table when your not looking even though you said to leave it.
 

HugDoggy

Citizen of Zooville
You can be less direct by rubbing/fondling his chest and belly in front of the sheath. Then it is up to him to literally make the next step into sexual territory.

Nothing is sexier than a self-confident male dog who courts or simply tries to mount without having gotten an offer though.
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Edit:
I think I just wasted an hour going off on a side track because I misunderstood what you were saying originally, but in short I agree with you.
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While what you are saying is true. In the early stages of a sexual relationship there is often a barrier that needs to be overcome "Don't jump on two leggers!" Belly and chest rubbing can often be given in a non-sexual way to give pleasure, without it intending to lead to the next level.

I usually get pups used to being touched all over by gently rubbing them all over including over their genitals, not spending time on those parts mind you; but including them in the rub. So it is seen as just another part of their body that you can touch and that can feel good and not give pain or feel funny to them to have it touched

Consistency and predictability are very important with dogs, it helps give them confidence that they know what you want or are asking. if belly rubs are to be part of your foreplay, then brush very lightly over the sheath as well every few rubs. Then try not to rub too close to the sheath if just giving normal belly rubs where you have no intention of things going further. Or so some unsuspecting visitor to your house doesn't get one heck of a surprise if the dog reads their action somewhat differently to how they were intended. :gsd_wink:

Ah... I think I missed something critical in what you said or perhaps what you didn't say, In what you were talking about the dog was on their paws not their back, yes that would change the dynamics. It might create another possible issue where a on their back tummy rub made them jump to their feet which could be perceived at them not liking the rub, but if they then jump on you or present and flag for you I guess that would make things clear again.

Slow and gentle letting the dog make the first move is fine, being ambiguous in your actions so that a rub could have two meanings or be confusing is not so fine. Dogs are very direct animals if they want sex they will be very clear about it, thus they usually appreciate you being equally as clear, if you are asking if they want to bury their bone, or have their spade filled. :gsd_happysmile:
 
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pes

Neighborhood Watcher
Staff member
How can you establish a relationship with a cat so that you can do sexual things with him?
First and foremost any kind of penetrative sex with any cat smaller than a lion would hurt the cat. As for other sexual things masturbation and maybe licking could be possible. But the cat tongue is not something I would want near my penis. :D You could suck or jerk a male cat off but the penis of regular cats is quite small and they do not cum much.

You can approach this like with any other animal. But intact male cats are known to sometimes lick themselves and get an erection. When this happens you can try to help him a little and see his reaction.
 
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