Opinions on neutering?

IrishZooLov3r said:
anyone saying it shouldn't be done are just pissed they can't let the family dog bang them; It should be done if the situation is out of hand
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what situation tho? the only situation where spay/neuter is the correct action is health issue. other things (ie: behavioral issues) can and should be solved by other means. sadly, simply snipping him/ripping her insides out is the quickest permanent solution and ppl generally prefer those... even though it can not yield the expected results (ie: a dog stays aggressive after neuter). weird that mutilation is usually the first advice one gets for "how to make my dog less aggressive". not to mention that a spay for example can result in the girl being incontinent for the rest of her life.
 
^ This. And regarding health issues, the biggest problem is that many of them that are commonly solved by normal, non-mutilating methods in humans are "solved" by castration in animals by most vets - either because it is easier for the vet or it gets them more money. Also, if a human is castrated, they usually have to take androgen/estrogen hormones for the rest of their life because their own body is not able to synthesize them anymore. They have to because there are many physical health issues and mental issues connected to bad hormone levels. On the other hand, if an animal is castrated, nobody cares.
 
Unless there is a legitimate medical need for it (and I don't mean because you don't want them having puppies. I mean like life or death situation), definitely not.
 
CanisLupus said:
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Spay incontinence happened to one of my dogs. Had to have her on medicine for a few years and then she stopped needing it. I can't say for sure if any other negative effects happened to her. She might have had a bladder infection later in her life, but it was a one time thing. My current boy gained weight when neutered and stopped cleaning himself for the most part so he's overall dirtier. Also, I've seen these two things commonly in my parent's pets as well. There's very little reason to neuter imo.
 
Neutering dogs is as effective in population control as spraying bugs pray into your backyard to finally get rid of wasps.

Here in Germany, neutering dogs is illegal, and now guess how mutch strays we have? Basicly zero. You won't find a stray dog in Germany. Here, if a dog breaks out and runs free, it does not take more than an houre, and the owner of that dog has the police at his doorstep, bringing him back his dog, and probably fining him.

It's convince mutilation of an innocent animal. Nothing more. You people in the USA do it for the same reason you circumcise baby's. Because its been this way since forever.

A strict law to chip all dogs, crackdown on illegal breeders, and actual competent ownership is a thousand times more effective than cutting off the genitals of dogs.
 
Schuppentier said:
Neutering dogs is as effective in population control as spraying bugs pray into your backyard to finally get rid of wasps.

Here in Germany, neutering dogs is illegal, and now guess how mutch strays we have? Basicly zero. You won't find a stray dog in Germany. Here, if a dog breaks out and runs free, it does not take more than an houre, and the owner of that dog has the police at his doorstep, bringing him back his dog, and probably fining him.

It's convince mutilation of an innocent animal. Nothing more. You people in the USA do it for the same reason you circumcise baby's. Because its been this way since forever.

A strict law to chip all dogs, crackdown on illegal breeders, and actual competent ownership is a thousand times more effective than cutting off the genitals of dogs.
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Except for your views on circumcision, I agree with you 100%. And I am in the USA! I just recently went to my vet because my dog had some fleas and boy oh boy did I get yelled at, and I mean YELLED at (!) for not spaying my 8.5 month old Goldador already. I did not engage him, because if I did, I would've won the shouting match... and nobody wins when things get to that level. Needless to say, I'm now looking for a different vet.

My main point here @Schuppentier is: Most people are actually guilted and/or bullied into these so-called "choices" here in the USA. Thankfully, there is a growing body of factual, science based evidence, supporting healthier choices like Ovary Sparing Spay (OSS) or simply leaving our dogs intact, as nature has always intended.

I appreciate your views. I only wish we saw more of them in the non-Zoo community... 🐕

P.S. FaceBook has a wonderful group that's all about either leaving a dog intact or OSS and Vasectomy.
I would've left a link, but it's against the rules here at ZV.
 
My observations have been that the large majority of zoophiles oppose neutering (for obvious reasons). My opinion is that 'it depends' and there are/can be valid reasons to neuter (and spay). We don't live in an ideal world and overall too few humans are compassionate, enlightened caretakers/keepers to animals. Being deeply involved in animal rescue and welfare I'm strongly anti-breeding in virtually all instances with few exceptions. Until there are loving, lifelong homes for every animal I view breeding as adding to the issue rather than being a part of it's solution.
 
nekdoneco123 said:
it would very likely not help the group also if someone were to link it with zooville...
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Well, true enough. But isn't a link just "one way"? Meaning, if links were allowed to somewhere, that "somewhere" wouldn't know to link back here... would they?

I'm asking... 🐕
 
SaltyDog said:
Well, true enough. But isn't a link just "one way"? Meaning, if links were allowed to somewhere, that "somewhere" wouldn't know to link back here... would they?

I'm asking... 🐕
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The link cannot be returned, one way. However, it is unnecessary to link anything, zoos know that neutering is pointless and just propaganda for simple stupid non-zoo people and money for veterinarians and animal protectionists.
 
bobbybobz said:
My family is much for neutering animals as a form of population and behavior control. I disagree, thinking neutering is pretty fucked up, because there are better alternatives like vasectomies or training your dog use a something else to mount on. When they need to release. (I’m just saying this because it’s not generally common for people to let dogs mount humans)

Idk, what are your opinions on this?
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Look, this happened recently and it's a tough subject to talk about. It is important that Tyson did have tumor on his right front paw ON TOP OF HIS SHOULDER (it was obivous and was NOT under the skin.) that was going to get removed.

I had four dogs (now three) one was the father; one was the mother and I had kept two of their babies out of the ten. Max (the son) is a very good boy, but kinda special if you get what I mean. Evony (the daughter) looks just like her daddy. Tyson (the dad) is like, a very very big boy, then Trixie (the mama). Now I wasn't having any trouble with Max or Tyson in the beginning, they were okay, but Tyson was sort of shy.

Well one day out of nowhere Tyson had attacked max, luckily my brother was over and stopped them before they got hurt. I was worried because nothing like that had happened before. They got into several fights after that, luckily no one got hurt.. until I was sick one day and could barely talk. I had let them inside and Tyson launched at Max grabbed his neck. I couldn't scream or yell for them to stop. I heard a big yelp and Max got of off Tyson. Tyson got up and acted like he was okay. The next day he had a little limp which I didn't think anything of it. Two days after that fight, I realized Tyson couldn't lift his head up, and he was still limping. I freaked out and took him to the vet. He had fluid all in his neck, Max had broken the skin in the fight. The worst news was Tyson had another small tumor above his shoulder. Max had only aggerated in the fight.

A month goes by with Tyson on Antibiotics, he's okay. Then he couldn't walk, the painkillers had stopped working for him. Tyson could not walk correctly without hobbling around. Four days after him stuck in his kennel, whimpering in pain.. I had put him to sleep on May 2nd.

It was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life.. and I truly do wish I would have gotten one of my males neutered because my sweet baby boy would still be here. Yes, it is wrong, but sometimes it has to be done.
 
MashaSobaka said:
The link cannot be returned, one way.
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Precisely. I was already aware... I just wanted to illustrate there would be no risk of anything being linked to ZooVille. Thank you.
MashaSobaka said:
However, it is unnecessary to link anything, zoos know that neutering is pointless and just propaganda for simple stupid non-zoo people and money for veterinarians and animal protectionists.
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I do feel, however, that increasing the numbers about not mutilating our animals on such a platform as FaceBook does have benefits. My point isn't to complain about not having links, but rather to stir up more interest in joining such groups so as to better "spread the gospel" of non-cruel methods.

Hope this helps... 🐕
 
Reconscope said:
When are we going to start neutering/Spaying humans? The world is full of them over 3 billion. Sounds like an overpopulation issue
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I love the point you're trying to make here, but your numbers are way way off. Try 8 billion. Google it.

Only trying to help... 🐕
 
egoldstein said:
It doesn't always remove sex drive. I have known some who persisted to have a sex drive and I don't mean short term while the hormones are at higher levels, but for years/rest of their lives. I don't know how common that is, but I can attest it does happen.
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Yes, I have seen this on my own farm as well. 🐕
 
SaltyDog said:
I love the point you're trying to make here, but your numbers are way way off. Try 8 billion. Google it.

Only trying to help... 🐕
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... That's disappointing... I wonder when is the population limit gonna be "alright that's enough we should stop making more"
 
Reconscope said:
... That's disappointing... I wonder when is the population limit gonna be "alright that's enough we should stop making more"
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It seems more like they were pointing out the underestimate of the argument.

We have already passed the point of it being “way too many people”

But neutering people still shouldn’t be the option we ever gravitate to. Just let gay people live their lives and improve the distribution of food we already make and we can keep limping society along for a few more decades before the heat literally cooks us.
 
SaltyDog said:
Well, true enough. But isn't a link just "one way"? Meaning, if links were allowed to somewhere, that "somewhere" wouldn't know to link back here... would they?

I'm asking... 🐕
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it is one way and they wouldn't know you linked it nor from where, but the mention of some facebook group (if you'd also name it) would still be there for someone who looks for dirt hard enough to see. same reason you shouldn't post your name or face pic. better to not leave any clue. it's not like someone googles your name and zooville instantly comes up. it's just there will always be malicious ppl with way too much free time. better be safe.
 
Kusaragi said:
It seems more like they were pointing out the underestimate of the argument.

We have already passed the point of it being “way too many people”

But neutering people still shouldn’t be the option we ever gravitate to. Just let gay people live their lives and improve the distribution of food we already make and we can keep limping society along for a few more decades before the heat literally cooks us.
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Are people purposely going the overpopulated route? Just for the sake of it? Do they know that they are screwing over the ecosystem as a whole?
 
nekdoneco123 said:
it is one way and they wouldn't know you linked it nor from where, but the mention of some facebook group (if you'd also name it) would still be there for someone who looks for dirt hard enough to see. same reason you shouldn't post your name or face pic. better to not leave any clue. it's not like someone googles your name and zooville instantly comes up. it's just there will always be malicious ppl with way too much free time. better be safe.
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After thinking about this for a while, I can see your point now. I have to remind myself, I'm not the typical FaceBook user. I don't post pics of me, my house, where I go, I don't tell anyone where I live, when I eat out... in otherwords, I do not have a digital life on social media. But most people that have a FB presence do have a rather large part of their lives displayed there. I don't.

So I can see now how this would make it much easier for someone to try to track you down. I still feel that I've taken enough precautions, so I've used their resources to try to find vets that perform things like OSS's. The group is also a good resource for research on this subject.

I do take your point. Thank you... 🐕
 
SaltyDog said:
I do feel, however, that increasing the numbers about not mutilating our animals on such a platform as FaceBook does have benefits. My point isn't to complain about not having links, but rather to stir up more interest in joining such groups so as to better "spread the gospel" of non-cruel methods.
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The problem is that the average non-zoo person is an idiot, a fanatic. You can say anything to them and they will still answer that sterilization is good. I have written a lot of comments in such cases in recent years, it made no sense at all, because nothing can be done against a fanatic.
Reconscope said:
I wonder when is the population limit gonna be "alright that's enough we should stop making more"
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Im exclzoo.:gsd_wink:
nekdoneco123 said:
it is one way and they wouldn't know you linked it nor from where, but the mention of some facebook group (if you'd also name it) would still be there for someone who looks for dirt hard enough to see. same reason you shouldn't post your name or face pic. better to not leave any clue. it's not like someone googles your name and zooville instantly comes up. it's just there will always be malicious ppl with way too much free time. better be safe.
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This is true. If someone is very patient and skillful, they can compare the comments based on word usage and sentence structure. With this method I found a lot of zoophiles on Facebook who speak my native language.
 
Kusaragi said:
It seems more like they were pointing out the underestimate of the argument.

We have already passed the point of it being “way too many people”

But neutering people still shouldn’t be the option we ever gravitate to. Just let gay people live their lives and improve the distribution of food we already make and we can keep limping society along for a few more decades before the heat literally cooks us.
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I think you're on the right answer; we've ben here before, not the exact situation, but at the point where the population and our ability to provide start getting close. Malthus talks about it in 1798 in his "An Essay on the Principle of Population". As our tech improves we maintain more and more people until we reach the point where resources start to get thin. As the cost of those resources go up, the cost of implementing the tech solutions is deemed more reasonable or the cost of researching new solutions becomes more rewarding. We then implement some fixes and kick the can a few more generations down the road. We can provide for all and then some today, we just don't due to a number of factors.
We even have solutions for the climate issues too, but everything comes with trade offs. At this moment it would seem those capable of implementing are not motivated to do so for a variety of reasons.
 
Reconscope said:
Are people purposely going the overpopulated route? Just for the sake of it? Do they know that they are screwing over the ecosystem as a whole?
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are you seriously asking if any person asks themselves "isn't there too many ppl?" before creating new life with their partner? or think what that does to the eco system? or do it "on purpose" to overpopulate more? are you off your meds again?
 
MashaSobaka said:
This is true. If someone is very patient and skillful, they can compare the comments based on word usage and sentence structure. With this method I found a lot of zoophiles on Facebook who speak my native language.
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i meant it more in a way that let's say: @SaltyDog drops the name of the group here. some random "all dogs should be castrated" person doesn't really like them and looks for a way to get that group canceled (canceling stuff one doesn't like being kind of popular nowadays). said random person spends their night (the loudest usually seem to also have the most free time for some reason) looking for mentions of the group around the internet. after some time their search lands here (on a public, freely searchable forum) on zooville.
now, they don't even need to read through anything, the group being mentioned on a forum for animal molesters is enough to "make sense" why they'd be anti-neuter. they take the case of "hey, this group is secretly zoophiles" to admins of facebook and we all know how quick is facebook with anything "not-so-wholesome" (they don't care about truth) and the group disappeared. for no reason besides one person (well two persons, the malicious one also likely believes they "do good") thinking they'd do some good by mentioning them.

i didn't mean it like him mentioning that group and they all somehow get doxxed or whatever.
 
LuvelyLeda said:
Where's this from? It's a good little infobomb.
This topic is one of the reasons why we ended up with our vet. The first vet we went to was really pushy and got defensive whenever I asked questions about his advice to try and understand why he's telling me to do something; he was really sus and it didn't take long for me to get rid of him. I love the vet we have now, the topic of neutering came up and she even printed me a scientific paper to read to get me informed on why I should or shouldn't. I dunno if it is, but it should be a crime for a vet to pressure someone into making decisions.
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My vet is like my doctor, lawyer, or any other professional whom I refer to for their advice; they're specialists in their field and I consult with them; they don't make decisions, they advise and guide. The few I've met who behaved otherwise didn't get my return business.
It probably helps that I try to educate myself on the subject and that I ask questions and drive the session as often as not and they likely see that I am seriously interested in the health and care of my companions. I've even been known to bring them papers and reference materials covering specific topics I'm dealing with, partly because I want my vet's practice to be as well informed and equiped as possible to help me manage care.
 
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