Spaying/neuthering your dogs. North America vs the rest of the world.

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Darkchien

Guest
I see a lot of people from North America seing spaying/neutheuring their dog as the best solution. Compared to other parts of the world like some countries in Europe are against it.

Why people in North America are all in on this? I understand that they want to prevent a overpopulation of dogs but I feel bad that we humans must torture our pets to satisfy our selfish society. If we humans weren't alive, dogs would live free from this burden we poss on them.

Even if I have a femaledog and she gives me zero sex, I would never sterilize her unless it was for medical reaso and not because of the idea of "protecting" our human society of overpopulation.
 

Snowman

Tourist
It is a medical thing for bitches as it reduces the chance of them having infections or cancer in the uterus and reduces the hormonal stress they have to go thru every year.
For male dogs i don't see the reason to neuter unless its an out of control and very aggressive to other male dogs or people since they tend to settle down most of the time i would also never recommend it until after the dog has reached two years of age.

I see you mentioning torture??
Why do you say that?
 

dartel

Esteemed Citizen of ZV
I'd say it's a result of the veterinary/adoption industry here. For decades they've pushed it as the "normal" or "right" thing to do, with no actual science to back up their claims. Most adoption places won't even let you adopt without neutering/spaying. Then we've also got 30 years of Bob Fucking Barker on The Price Is Right ending every show with "And remember, have your pets spayed or neutered", he even forced it into Drew Carey's contract that he had to keep saying it after Barker retired. So it's been ingrained as a automatic "necessity" to owning a pet.

Similar to how for decades it was standard practice to circumcise every baby born in a hospital here, regardless of any religious affiliation or parental request. Which, I may be wrong on this, isn't the case in Europe?
 
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Darkchien

Guest
It is a medical thing for bitches as it reduces the chance of them having infections or cancer in the uterus and reduces the hormonal stress they have to go thru every year.
For male dogs i don't see the reason to neuter unless its an out of control and very aggressive to other male dogs or people since they tend to settle down most of the time i would also never recommend it until after the dog has reached two years of age.

I see you mentioning torture??
Why do you say that?
I feel bad to operate them because we want to lower their population. I maybe over sensitive on the topic. lol. ?
 

Bloodwolf

Prized Citizen of ZV
You can thank the ASPCA along with PITA for all that. It’s so inter grated that most vets are taught that it’s the only option for the pets health.
I say FUCK that noise. In fact my vet knows very well not to mention even the thought of Castration to me.
 

Bloodwolf

Prized Citizen of ZV
From what I understand, it is WAY more about population control and because people want their docile, easy-to-manage, fur babies than it is related to good health practices. People aren't (or just don't want to be) responsible enough to have intact dogs/cats.
This may be true. But who do you think is pushing that?
 
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IHO

Citizen of Zooville
This may be true. But who do you think is pushing that?
Oh absolutely, and therefore most people don't even have to question it or think about it. "Doc say's it's the best thing for 'em"... and the cats won't spray your house and your dog won't try to tear through the screen door to find that mate they smell. Sounds like a win-win to me! Nice 'n' easy. Just chop 'em up!
It's pretty messed up. And if they must do it (some places actually require it as local ordinance), they should at least wait until after the animal has reached sexual maturity. More recent studies show that "fixing" young animals just old enough to be homed/adopted effects normal development. But we could also say "they" prefer it be done before homing/adoption because they know most morons won't think about it or put it off it until there's an unwanted litter.
 

KnotCrazy

Zooville Philanthropist
I have to agree with @ScotExotic the generalized language is crazy for this topic. I think people need to be more aware of their pets if they keep them intact and realize if they are intact they will want to breed. Responsible ownership is part of being that animals owner. I was pained when I rescued my female dane from a puppy mill, she was almost 7 yrs old and they required her to be fixed. That is crazy to me. State regulation should give you a choice. Now for people that straight out neuter/spay only for the convenience, to me is cruel and unusual punishment for that animal! I will say for cities that catch stray cats and dogs and neuter/spay them for population control is warranted. Last thing you want is overpopulation and animals starving to death because of it.
 

IHO

Citizen of Zooville
Are you suggesting we dont have to control animal populations?
No, but if the majority were more prepared and educated about the animals they bring home (not buying the copy of "Your New Puppy" as they pick up their new puppy), and took more responsibility, our companions wouldn't need to be "fixed". I'm sure there would still be accidents, but I had a female who was intact for nearly 8-9 years before being spayed and she never got knocked up unless it was planned. She wasn't kept in a crate or anything, but during her heat cycle her availability was limited and she went into a dog-run (or stayed with me) when going outside until her cycle was over. Even with a fenced yard, one can't just put 'em out and forget 'em for a while... they will find a way if they sense a mate nearby.

H1Cu.gif

That said, there was another thread about this where ovary and testicle-saving procedures came up. While much more considerate since they get to keep their natural hormones and can still have sex, it's still altering them for human convenience.
 

mareman123

Tourist
in the US people don't seem to understand birth control so it is the vet looking out for the animal's best interest to encourage spay/neuter. most pet owners can't afford a pyometra surgery, and aren't observant enough to realize that fluffy is pregnant so needs some extra care so it's in the animals best interest to get good care when planned instead of poor care or euthanized out of a lack of planning
 

sxwd

Zooville Settler
Years ago it wasn't nearly as common - these days it is pushed as a population control and health measure. There is also be a financial incentive for Vets as some charge quite a bit for the procedures.
 

Schuppentier

Citizen of Zooville
Similar to how for decades it was standard practice to circumcise every baby born in a hospital here, regardless of any religious affiliation or parental request. Which, I may be wrong on this, isn't the case in Europe?

No here in Europe, our kids don't have to suffer a lifelong from a dryed out, unsensitive dick. Most here are intact.
 

UR20Z

Dumpster Diver
UK- Most are spayed/neuthered but not too uncommon to see an unspayed (usually male)

Time to get nit-picky here...

*EVERY* male, with or without his balls, is, by the very definition of the word, "unspayed". You don't spay males - full stop. You *CAN'T* spay males, for the simple reason that they don't have any of the parts that get removed during the operation called spaying.

You can castrate or neuter or sterilize or desex a male, but hell will freeze over, pigs will fly, and the sun will rise in the west before anybody manages to spay one.

Words and their meanings matter. Learn them. Learn to use them correctly. Or learn to enjoy being laughed at as the ignorant fool you'll continue to present yourself as.
 

kuchen

Tourist
I find it fucking disgusting what some people do with their animals... There might be an argument to be made for sterilisation ( not neutering! ) as a population control measure, but even here in Germany where neutering technically constitutes an illegal amputation under our animal protections laws it's still not uncommon to see neutered dogs mostly because enforcement of said laws is severely lacking...

I don't get how any vet in their right mind could recommend this form of mutilation for better health now that there are countless studies finding a plethora of negative side effects of the procedure.
 

FF24

Tourist
I don't understand the need to neuter male dogs. If they want mild mannered dogs they can just adopt a female or a tame breed.

But then again owning a pet for it to sit around all day seems boring.
 

Schuppentier

Citizen of Zooville
I don't understand the need to neuter male dogs. If they want mild mannered dogs they can just adopt a female or a tame breed.

But then again owning a pet for it to sit around all day seems boring.
I have a pet snake, he does exactly that. Laying around all day thinking snake things
 

IHO

Citizen of Zooville
I don't understand the need to neuter male dogs. If they want mild mannered dogs they can just adopt a female or a tame breed.

But then again owning a pet for it to sit around all day seems boring.
I thought I read somewhere that there isn't any real evidence that neutering has much affect on behavior at all, other than they are more lethargic and they won't chew through the screen door or jump out an open window to get at a female in heat. Otherwise, it only has negative health effects for the dog.
 

kuchen

Tourist
I thought I read somewhere that there isn't any real evidence that neutering has much affect on behavior at all, other than they are more lethargic and they won't chew through the screen door or jump out an open window to get at a female in heat. Otherwise, it only has negative health effects for the dog.
There is even some evidence to suggest that it has mostly negative consequences for behavior as well...
IIRC. this study was a good starting point "Behavioural risks in male dogs with minimal lifetime exposure to gonadal hormones may complicate population-control benefits of desexing"
journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0196284
 
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Nerya

Lurker
From what I understand, it is WAY more about population control and because people want their docile, easy-to-manage, fur babies than it is related to good health practices. People aren't (or just don't want to be) responsible enough to have intact dogs/cats.
For cats it’s actually important to have them spayed and neutered. It’s very much needed for female cats health. With dogs on the other hand, I’d just agree. No point in getting them fixed, when there’s no medical issues.
 

aragos32727

Citizen of Zooville
Another reason which I'm sure has been touched on in the comments is there has been links to cancer forming especially in male dogs due to hormones. Behavioral issues can also stem from unneutered for unspayed dogs. And of course overpopulation. Some owners can't control their dog or choose not to.
 

FloofyNewfie

The Floofy Moderator
Staff member
Another reason which I'm sure has been touched on in the comments is there has been links to cancer forming especially in male dogs due to hormones. Behavioral issues can also stem from unneutered for unspayed dogs. And of course overpopulation. Some owners can't control their dog or choose not to.
Not on this thread in particular, but I have touched upon this in another thread...

For females: The biggest risk with cancer from spaying is the increased risk of Bone Cancer, Thyroid Cancer, and Lymphoma. Her body will also tax the adrenal gland for estrogen, once an Ovariohysterectomy (traditional spay) is performed. This is what usually causes the all so common weight gain we see in spayed females. It also put a lot of unnecessary stress on the gland itself, especially if her is spayed as a puppy. Spaying will also increases the risk for fear-aggression and urinary incontinence. Early spaying will increase the risk of improper formation of growth plates and overall bone development which will increase the risk of developing Hip Dysplasia and cruciate rupture. Hypothyroidism is also a major concern.

For Males: The biggest risk with neutering when looking at cancer is the increased risk of Bone Cancer, Thyroid Cancer, Lymphoma, and Mast Cell Tumors. Usually neutering will cause a male to develop more puppy like behaviors. The risk of hypothyroidism is also increased, as well as urinary incontinence, improper bone development (when neutered <1 year), proper muscle development (when neutered <1 year), cruciate rupture, and Hip Dysplasia.

A study was done with 1444 golden retriever and ~750 rottweilers which showed that on average dogs that didn't have a S&N done to them <1 year of age tended to live 6 months to 2 years longer on average. A S&N at >4 years of age didn't make that much difference in their average lifespan.
 
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Labraguy5

Citizen of Zooville
In the UK, spaying females is common and neutering males is probably 50/50. Shelters are the usual as everywhere else, but most breeders don't really care too much and don't follow up. A lot of breeders will just advise it and make a deal with their preferred vet and provide a "discount" voucher if you use them. Vets here try hard to push it but just see it as a cash cow for extra income, asking if you can castrate the vet normally ends that conversation pretty quickly :gsd_laughing:

Not on this thread in particular, but I have touched upon this in another thread...

For females: The biggest risk with cancer from spaying is the increased risk of Bone Cancer, Thyroid Cancer, and Lymphoma. Her body will also tax the adrenal gland for estrogen, once an Ovariohysterectomy (traditional spay) is performed. This is what usually causes the all so common weight gain we see in spayed females. It also put a lot of unnecessary stress on the gland itself, especially if her is spayed as a puppy. Spaying will also increases the risk for fear-aggression and urinary incontinence. Early spaying will increase the risk of improper formation of growth plates and overall bone development which will increase the risk of developing Hip Dysplasia and cruciate rupture. Hypothyroidism is also a major concern.

For Males: The biggest risk with neutering when looking at cancer is the increased risk of Bone Cancer, Thyroid Cancer, Lymphoma, and Mast Cell Tumors. Usually neutering will cause a male to develop more puppy like behaviors. The risk of hypothyroidism is also increased, as well as urinary incontinence, improper bone development (when neutered <1 year), proper muscle development (when neutered <1 year), cruciate rupture, and Hip Dysplasia.

A study was done with 1444 golden retriever and ~750 rottweilers which showed that on average dogs that didn't have a S&N done to them <1 year of age tended to live 6 months to 2 years longer on average. A S&N at >4 years of age didn't make that much difference in their average lifespan.
Thanks that's some great info. My spayed girl has some of these issues. She's already had the weight gain which would just come out of nowhere, she's now incontinent and I can see the Hypothyroidism starting up as she gets into her senior years. She was spayed by the previous owner, but it's something I'll be avoiding in the future.
 

dartel

Esteemed Citizen of ZV
Another reason which I'm sure has been touched on in the comments is there has been links to cancer forming especially in male dogs due to hormones.
Not on this thread in particular, but I have touched upon this in another thread...

For females: The biggest risk with cancer from spaying is the increased risk of Bone Cancer, Thyroid Cancer, and Lymphoma. Her body will also tax the adrenal gland for estrogen, once an Ovariohysterectomy (traditional spay) is performed. This is what usually causes the all so common weight gain we see in spayed females. It also put a lot of unnecessary stress on the gland itself, especially if her is spayed as a puppy. Spaying will also increases the risk for fear-aggression and urinary incontinence. Early spaying will increase the risk of improper formation of growth plates and overall bone development which will increase the risk of developing Hip Dysplasia and cruciate rupture. Hypothyroidism is also a major concern.

For Males: The biggest risk with neutering when looking at cancer is the increased risk of Bone Cancer, Thyroid Cancer, Lymphoma, and Mast Cell Tumors. Usually neutering will cause a male to develop more puppy like behaviors. The risk of hypothyroidism is also increased, as well as urinary incontinence, improper bone development (when neutered <1 year), proper muscle development (when neutered <1 year), cruciate rupture, and Hip Dysplasia.

A study was done with 1444 golden retriever and ~750 rottweilers which showed that on average dogs that didn't have a S&N done to them <1 year of age tended to live 6 months to 2 years longer on average. A S&N at >4 years of age didn't make that much difference in their average lifespan.

It's funny, well no, actually sad. My vet always used the possibility of testicular and anal cancer as an argument for pushing to neuter him. I always just refused, but in my head I though how ridiculous that argument was, the same possibility exists for me but I'm not going to preemptively cut off my balls to prevent it from happening.

Thankfully he's 9 now and they stopped pushing to chop him up when he became a senior at 7. He's a Golden Retriever too, so that study exactly fits him.
 
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