Zoophilia in history

Llandefie said:
Isn't there the Greek myth of Epona, who was born of the union between a man who formed a sexual relationship with a mare because he hated women, and the offspring became the goddess of fertility?
I'm no historian so I probably have that ALL wrong, but still, that's a thing worth documenting if I'm at all correct.
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Now that just makes me think of Zelda. If Link is as kinky as Epona's dad, I like thinking about what he does with her when he's not off saving Zelda.
 
Llandefie said:
Isn't there the Greek myth of Epona, who was born of the union between a man who formed a sexual relationship with a mare because he hated women, and the offspring became the goddess of fertility?
I'm no historian so I probably have that ALL wrong, but still, that's a thing worth documenting if I'm at all correct.
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Now I love The Legend of Zelda even more <3. Epona is such a wonderful horse
 
Llandefie said:
Isn't there the Greek myth of Epona, who was born of the union between a man who formed a sexual relationship with a mare because he hated women, and the offspring became the goddess of fertility?
I'm no historian so I probably have that ALL wrong, but still, that's a thing worth documenting if I'm at all correct.
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Epona is not Greek. She is a Goddess of the Gauls, which were the French Celts. But, yes, her legend involves her father mating with a Celestial Mare.
 
I'm super curious to find out what the earliest known erotic depiction of canine genitalia is. Both of the canine penis, and the canine vulva.
Preferably not depictions of the animals engaged in sex with a human* but rather any art made in sexual admiration of the animal itself, or its genitals. True zoophilia.
*because the dog might be there for a degradation aspect rather than zoophilia, though if it contains an accurate canine penis with knot, or anatomically correct canine vulva I'd still be interested

Some imaginary lost artworks I've imagined:
- a prehistoric wooden or clay sculpture of a dog cock that was made for and used as a dildo
- prehistoric lascaux-like cave painting of a female dog with legs spread, vulva big and in heat, drawn near ground-level where the artist could sit and masturbate to it
- sketches of dog porn hidden among the personal belongings of a 19th century illustrator who was secretly a zoophile
- solo dog porn existing in some 18th century Japanese erotic shunga print

These two shunga prints from 1837, which were mentioned earlier in the thread, contain an accurate canine penis with the knot and shape correct. Though it's not erotic, the earliest depiction of any kind of a dog's penis I've managed to find is this Black Desert petroglyph dating to the 1st millenium BCE, found in this PDF on page 91.
DogPhallusFigure4.81.png

What are some early erotic depictions of canine genitalia you're aware of, or can find?
 
Dog&PonyShow said:
So human/animal coupling is a huge theme in lots of mythology! One major example is the wife of King Minos, who coupled with a bull and gave birth to the Minotaur. Other examples I can immediately think of include animal brides (touched on here), the various exploits of Zeus, and other myths related to shapeshifting. In terms of historical information, a lot of classical authors accuse the Egyptians of bestiality, but, much like today's jokes against the Welsh (or Scottish, Kiwis, etc.) it was likely just an insult. I did find some references indicating that some tribes indigenous to North America seem to not have had a taboo against zoosexual behavior, but I want to do more research into that. And obviously, religion managed to get its hands on this, as it has so many other things. Abrahamic religions have proscriptions against it, in Leviticus 18 and 20, although in the New Testament, some scholars have debated if there remains a proscription against zoosexual acts, based on Jesus' overturning of Judaic law.

I'll let y'all know if I learn more as I do more research.
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You think the reason it's such a common theme is that we're very low on the predator scale and are clearly terrified of predators, based on our history of hunting so many species to extinction and our fascination with predator "attacks" on humans, as if the aberration was the attack and not the species that has decided it's too special to belong to a food chain?

I'd think that, historically, animals would represent a strength that we would see as "supernatural"/mythical or at least superhuman, and that, in a time where humanity still shared its world with powerful animals, the "super-human" would logically be an animal-human hybrid. The anthropocentric view of the world has removed natural life from our culture enough that we imagine humans with powers because we don't think of animals as powerful anymore. We take credit for all the work done by oil as if it was done by our own hand, making the speed of a cheetah less and less impressive.

When you think about it, it's this life -one species living in the absence of uninvited natural life- that's the anomaly. This has never happened before, is fundamentally unsustainable, and will come crashing down without people noticing... because it's already started and we've decided it's a political issue. That's how far removed we are from reality. The natural world is collapsing under our weight and at least half of us still haven't noticed.
 
I'm betting that part of our mutualistic relationship with dogs, going back before "civilization", would be as a consequence-free sex partner. The shape of the dog penis is so perfect for stimulating the human vagina, it's almost as if dogs were bred for this. I'm talking 10k-15k years ago, when sex wasn't taboo and people shared everything in their tribes because they literally needed to trust each other with their lives every single day. I'm not sure how we can know these things with any certainty, but in the book Sapiens, the author talks about women being bred by multiple partners at the same time out of the belief you could combine more than two sets of genes.

In a world where resources are scarce and competition is fierce and violent, and in a time before vibrators or netflix, you can see where "fucking the dog" would be part of life. Necessity is the mother of invention and the human brain hasn't changed fundamentally in at least 30k years.

I'm also guessing that more people are engaging in acts of bestiality with the pandemic because our lives are more closely mimicking how we lived in caves. I doubt it will ever become mainstream or openly discussed, but I do wonder how much more prevalent zoosexuality will be. Between their tongues, penises, etc. I doubt it's a happy accident that everything fits so well. We've lived with dogs for too long for there to not be some sexual selection pressure there, assuming ancient humans had sex with animals but I think we'd be laughably naïve to think that zoosexuality is new. There's a reason your nostrils are big enough for your finger but your ears aren't; nothing in nature that is preserved over time is accidental and there would need to be a clear benefit for humans to share their living space with dogs. I'd actually be surprised if there wasn't a direct connection: you'd be more likely to feed a dog that fucks you well than one that doesn't and we've been living with and breeding these animals so long we don't know when it started. If it hasn't always been a thing, it wouldn't be a thing.
 
Pretty said:
I'm betting that part of our mutualistic relationship with dogs, going back before "civilization", would be as a consequence-free sex partner. The shape of the dog penis is so perfect for stimulating the human vagina, it's almost as if dogs were bred for this. I'm talking 10k-15k years ago, when sex wasn't taboo and people shared everything in their tribes because they literally needed to trust each other with their lives every single day. I'm not sure how we can know these things with any certainty, but in the book Sapiens, the author talks about women being bred by multiple partners at the same time out of the belief you could combine more than two sets of genes.

In a world where resources are scarce and competition is fierce and violent, and in a time before vibrators or netflix, you can see where "fucking the dog" would be part of life. Necessity is the mother of invention and the human brain hasn't changed fundamentally in at least 30k years.

I'm also guessing that more people are engaging in acts of bestiality with the pandemic because our lives are more closely mimicking how we lived in caves. I doubt it will ever become mainstream or openly discussed, but I do wonder how much more prevalent zoosexuality will be. Between their tongues, penises, etc. I doubt it's a happy accident that everything fits so well. We've lived with dogs for too long for there to not be some sexual selection pressure there, assuming ancient humans had sex with animals but I think we'd be laughably naïve to think that zoosexuality is new. There's a reason your nostrils are big enough for your finger but your ears aren't; nothing in nature that is preserved over time is accidental and there would need to be a clear benefit for humans to share their living space with dogs. I'd actually be surprised if there wasn't a direct connection: you'd be more likely to feed a dog that fucks you well than one that doesn't and we've been living with and breeding these animals so long we don't know when it started. If it hasn't always been a thing, it wouldn't be a thing.
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ive thought this for a while now. If you go back to the paleolithic times, there would have been a few alpha males that would have their pick of the women, and they'd want to make sure any children were theirs. So how would he keep his women satisfied and less willing to fuck other men in the tribe? Well, if he lets them fuck the dogs whenever they want, and they're able to get satisfied from that... they'd probably rather do that than risk cheating with another man possibly being caught and being thrown out of their high status position as the alpha's woman.
Back in the day being thrown out from such a position would probably mean death, as the rest of the men would also not want to have anything to do with you because of fear you'd pull the same shit on them. Back then life was brutal. A woman wouldnt want to fuck up a good situation by fucking another guy in the tribe if she has her mans blessing to fuck the dogs whenever she wants.

Also, its interesting to note that copulative tying is very uncommon in nature. I mean it makes sense... while you're tied... you're not very effective at defending yourself. From what I've read this is generally why it's so uncommon among species.
And interestingly among wild canids, the knots are smaller and the ties are shorter. So why the difference?
I've wondered if domesticated dogs one of the breeding benefits of dogs among prehistoric man didn't also have an impact on knot size.
Because you're right... its so unnaturally good at pleasing a woman. For the chieftain or whoever, if you know one of your male dogs pleasures your women more than the others... you might consider breeding him instead of the others for offspring. It wont make much of a difference immediately, but over 10,000 years it will.
Why would large knots have evolved in domesticated dogs to such a degree when large knots not something we see among wild Canids.
 
One of the things I learned when I was involved with one a university admin back in the day is that up to 85 percent of books, art and research material held at campus libraries are not available to student or the public. If you want to see any of it you have to file a request and approval. Since my admin was into bestiality she occasionaly had to join her in the restricted tombs to go through some of it. I could have gone through it for months and not view all of that they had on the subject.
 
Wombat_intl said:
One of the things I learned when I was involved with one a university admin back in the day is that up to 85 percent of books, art and research material held at campus libraries are not available to student or the public. If you want to see any of it you have to file a request and approval. Since my admin was into bestiality she occasionaly had to join her in the restricted tombs to go through some of it. I could have gone through it for months and not view all of that they had on the subject.
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When I was in university (last year), I ran into this a few times when needing to do research. It wasn't overly difficult, I just had to file a request to the Special Collections Dept, and then wait a few days for them to retrieve the book or material, and then I had to view it with them in the same room to make sure I didn't damage it or try to steal it.
I never once ran into the problem of being told no anytime I wanted to access something... just had to jump through hoops to get it.
Scientific Journals on the other hand... suck. Most of them are seriously pay-walled, and so you need to either cough up a lot of money, or request your professor pull the paper for you. That's where my research into the interaction of Canine and Human gamettes came to a screeching halt. While there were some papers that were public that I could get access to to get protein information I needed... so much was in papers I couldn't. There's even papers from the 50s and 60s that are still paywalled. A researcher named Bartlett did a bunch of studies on the subject, "Biochemical Characteristics of Dog Semen", "Studies on dog semen. I. Morphological characteristics", and "Studies on dog semen. II. Biochemical characteristics". But they're all paywalled. I was able to take advantage of a free trial to get access to one of them last year, but I havent read the others. And for obvious reasons I wasn't going to walk up to my professor and ask him to download them for me. lol
 
OMG you guys, sorry to hear of that level of censorship!
When I went to school, we didn't have that. Surprisingly the more things have got "Liberal", the left are doing the censoring like crazy according to my kids.
 
Zen said:
OMG you guys, sorry to hear of that level of censorship!
When I went to school, we didn't have that. Surprisingly the more things have got "Liberal", the left are doing the censoring like crazy according to my kids.
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It's not exactly censorship, as the word is normally used. With respect to research materials that are non-digital... It's usually dont to protect the item, either because its old... or because the number of the books that were printed were so low that the institution doesn't want to risk it being damaged or misplaced because its not easy to replace.

With respect to digital papers, that's the racket of Science Journals. Read up on the Aaron Swartz case to get a better understanding. Here's what he wrote about it. https://archive.org/details/GuerillaOpenAccessManifesto Science Journals effectively have a legal extortion scheme/monolopy. In order to advance your research career you need to write papers and publish them in science journal, In order to write papers you need access to prior papers. So you have to publish on their platforms to get anywhere, and you have to pay them to access the material already on them. The more respected the name, the more it costs, and the more important it becomes to have your work published there.
 
newsirocco said:
The old Norse god Loki is reputed to have given birth to an 8 legged foal called Sleipnir who became Odin's favourite horse. Loki changed himself into a mare in order to have a relationship with the stallion Svadilfari.
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I went to a hippie private school and in 5th grade my perverted teacher taught us about that story. He was not shy to tell us about zoophilia… probably why he got fired :gsd_laughing:
 
I will mention one that i didn't see anyone mentioning.
Caligula really loved his horse Incitatus. Horse roamed free in house, bathed in their baths, had servants, almost appointed consul, exc. I wonder what was happening there ...
Most that is known about him came from one historian who didn't like him that much and who wrote about him after his demise, so everything needs to be taken lightly.
 
Today I think that is moved to Mexico and south America (or still stayed there). Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Wombat_intl said:
One of the things I learned when I was involved with one a university admin back in the day is that up to 85 percent of books, art and research material held at campus libraries are not available to student or the public. If you want to see any of it you have to file a request and approval. Since my admin was into bestiality she occasionaly had to join her in the restricted tombs to go through some of it. I could have gone through it for months and not view all of that they had on the subject.
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So iff i understand it right, there is a lot off ancient zoophilia material behind closed doors never to be seen for the public?

Someone should make a documentary about ancient zoophilia but it would probably be to controversial to do so nowadays.
 
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