WhaleSong
Zooville Settler
That was really creative and funny but...why?
Bestiality in mainstream media
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That was really creative and funny but...why?
WhaleSong
Zooville Settler
There was actually a more complicated story line than that. A man goes to his doctor (played by Gene Wilder) because he's having problems with his sexual relationship with his sheep. The doctor has all the usually reactions non-zoos have to animal sex, telling him that it's wrong, etc. But when he meets the sheep he takes an immediate liking to her and asks the man to leave the sheep with him for a while. He ends up having a torrid "love affair" with the sheep, until he gets caught and convicted. The man takes his sheep back and the doctor looses his medical license and ends up working a menial job in a restaurant, his life pretty much ruined. He ends up sad, lonely, and depressed. It's not really an accurate picture of a zoo relationship, but is not too far off the mark with regards to what can happen to zoos when they are caught.
WhaleSong
Zooville Settler
I've seen a few European adds over year with humorous references to bestiality. I know there was one where a guy was standing behind a horse or cow and in some slapstick scenario his pants came down. He wasn't actually doing anything sexual with the animal, but his wife/girlfriend saw him in that position and it looked like he was fucking the animal, or at least about to do so. He does that whole, "No, it's not what you think?" bit, as she storms away from him in shock and anger. As a viewer you know he's going to have a hard time convincing her that it was all a big misunderstanding and nothing untoward was actually going on.
A comparatively tame American ad comes to mind where a guy runs out of milk for his cereal. He looks out the kitchen window and sees a cow at the top of a hill. Soon, he's outside holding the bowl of cereal underneath the cow trying to figure out how to milk it. Back in the house, another guy is watching this from a window. A woman comes along and looks out the window. "Are you going to tell him that's a boy cow," she asks. "Nah," says the guy, "he'll figure it out." I couldn't help imagining the first guy eating his cereal with bull semen instead of milk.
The one that I found most shocking was another European commercial. I don't know from which country. It showed a young boy sitting in a bedroom and surfing the Internet. Then you hear the sound of sex and a man grunting and groaning in sexual pleasure. As the viewer you realize that the boy found some Internet porn and you think, OK, not really something he should be looking at, but kids do that. Then you hear "Baaaaaa..." Uh-oh. The kid's eyes go wide and he immediately shuts off the computer and goes running out of the room. Oh dear, the poor kid's traumatized by what he's seen. The joke is that a moment later he returns to the room carrying the family dog, throws the dog on the bed, and locks the door. The kid's not traumatized, he's inspired! I have no idea what it was an ad for. (I'd actually like to see that commercial again, but I've never been able to find it.)
One concern I have is that this ad may not be so far from the truth. I've seen some webcam videos of young guys with their dogs--not as young as the boy in the commercial, of course. I suspect that not all of them are true zoophiles, they're just horny teens who might never had considered bestiality had they not seen it on the Internet. For a young non-zoo to experiment sexually with the family pet might be OK, under the right circumstances, but to do it on a webcam while showing their faces strikes me as a really bad idea, and I worry about what consequences these boys may face. Also, I suspect that probably most of these boys think they're doing a "private show" for someone they met online, and may not realize that they are being recorded and the video is going to be distributed on the Internet.
WhaleSong
Zooville Settler
Yes. Speaking of donkey shows, there was an episode of House, M.D. called "It's a Wonderful Lie" where Dr. House is trying to diagnose a patient and suddenly seems to realize what her symptoms indicate. The way I remember it, he gives her a funny look at says, "Did you do a donkey show?" He explains that her symptoms could only be caused by a disease picked up from an equine, and that she needs to be honest with him so that he can diagnose and treat her correctly. She fesses up and behaves flirtatiously towards him, asking him if he'd like to see her with a donkey and inviting him to see her show.
I must have missed the ending of that episode, because when I looked it up online, I found out that she was playing the Virgin Mary in a nativity play and was riding a real mule in the play. For all these years I thought she really had done a donkey show. What still makes it interesting is that it apparently didn't occur to House that she might have picked up the disease through non-sexual contact with an equine--he immediately thought "donkey show."
WhaleSong
Zooville Settler
I'm on the fence about this. I certainly think that a lot more people are at least curious about it than most people realize or would like to admit. There are also probably a lot of people who aren't interested in it, but aren't bothered by it, either. There's another thread on this forum where people discuss whether they ever suspected someone they know of being zoo. I could think of a few people, but I had no strong evidence, just suspicions, and I may have misread those situations due to my own biases (and maybe a little wishful thinking).
Historically speaking, in the days back when everyone had horses for work and transportation, and may have had herds of animals, quite a few people practiced opportunistic bestiality as a convenient means of sexual gratification. This still happens in some cultures today. As someone who grew up in the suburbs, I always heard rumors about country boys and farm boys getting it on with the animals. I don't know how common that really is, but probably quite a few of the guys here who have had experiences with equines and other farm animals got started that way. Anyway, I was jealous of those farm boys for having such opportunities. Had I grown up on a farm I absolutely would have fucked just about every animal there, if they were compatible and willing. Not because I'm a zoo but because at that age I was desperate for sex and didn't really care where I got it. (I probably would have felt really guilty about it, too, because at that time I believed that it was "sick" and "wrong" and "unnatural" and that I'd go to hell for it. But as long as I enjoyed it--and I can't imagine not enjoying it--I would have kept on doing it in spite of any guilt. I've never been very good at resisting temptation.) And unless I'd been caught and forced to stop, I'd probably would have continued to this day.
I want to be reincarnated as a farm boy.
In college I had a religious studies class taught by the college chaplain. He pointed out that if the Bible bothered to forbid something like homosexuality or bestiality, it's because it was "happening all the time," and people knew that it was happening. But its also important to remember that the majority of people were not OK with it and have been trying for millennia to stamp it out, hence the taboo against it. The Bible prescribes the death penalty for bestiality, and there are some records of cases where that penalty was imposed, going all the way up to Puritan New England (e.g., Thomas Granger--his story breaks my heart). On the other hand, to my knowledge, there isn't evidence of large numbers of convictions for and executions for bestiality. Was bestiality really rare? I doubt it. Were most people just good at not getting caught? I suspect that when someone discovered a friend or family member with an animal, the may have looked the other way. I mean, knowing the penalty, would you rat out a friend? A sibling? Your own child? Even if they were disgusted and ashamed, I suspect most people would have behaved protectively, maybe even helping to cover up the "crime," or at least they would have looked the other way. "See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil."
You said that, "there are no robust ethical or philosophical grounds on which one can truly object to its practice - only cultural conditioning. Surely many others have come to realize this, and kept it completely to themselves, thus never showing up on the radar..." I agree with you on the first point, but on the second point, I think very few people have taken the time to really consider the issue and examine the arguments. I think many people consider it self-evident that having sex with animals is a form of sexual abuse, comparable to rape or child molestation. Even if they acknowledge that the animal may have consented to and enjoyed the experience, they consider it comparable to statutory rape--the animal can't give informed consent because they lack the cognitive ability to do so. At the same time I agree with you that some people have realized that bestiality/zoophilia is not inherently wrong. But I also agree with you that the people who have realized this keep it to themselves, because they know full well that they are in the minority and that expressing such an unpopular opinion would likely have consequences for them--people would accuse them of being an apologist for zoos (nearly as bad as being an apologist for pedophiles), or would accuse them of being a zoo themselves.
All of that is just to say that yes, bestialty/zoophilia is way more common than most people realize, but we're also still a minority with few defenders and we face severe consequences if we are found out.
M
MareButtUddrrLovrr
Guest
One of the things that I never really felt comfortable with were the jokes ad nauseam about how Arabs were "camel-humpers" and "sheep-fuckers;" all this done as a way to dehumanize Southwest Asians/Arabs in general.
Yes, I get that we were at war, but that still doesn't make it right.
Yes, I get that we were at war, but that still doesn't make it right.
The truth is, quite a few of them actually could be having their way with donkeys and sheep. Often they cant get any other kind of sex before marriage due to strict rules about sex before marriage.
Not just the Arabs, most strict Muslim countries are like this
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M
MareButtUddrrLovrr
Guest
But to dehumanize them, just because we were at war with them?
WhaleSong
Zooville Settler
Manhunter is the first film adaptation of the novel Red Dragon, featuring Brain Cox as Hannibal Lecter. After the success of the film Silence of the Lambs, a second Red Dragon film was made with Anthony Hopkins as Hannibal Lecter.
I won't say this is dehumanising much, more at a taunt, like calling new Zealanders sheep shaggers or Germans krauts
WhaleSong
Zooville Settler
It was loosely based on a 1942 film by the same name. In the 1982 film, the cat people look human, but they are actually a separate species. They are not the descendants of early hominids, but the descendants of black panthers (melanistic leopards) to whom human beings were sacrificed. (They souls of the victims entered the cats or something.) When a cat person has sex with a human, they turn into a panther. The only way for them to return to human form is to kill a human. The only way to avoid the transformation is to have sex with another cat person, which usually results in cat people resorting to incest.
In the version I saw on TV, the main character, Irena, has sex with a human man and transforms. She climbs on top of him in her panther form. He says, "Irena...please..." and she doesn't kill him. He ends up keeping her in the zoo where he works. I remember a scene at the end of the films where he's stroking her and he still seems to love her. Apparently the full-length movie has some additional scenes. (See wikipedia for more info.)
I remember a discussion of the film in another zoo forum. Someone suggested that after her transformation, the guy fucked her again, in her panther form, and continued his sexual relationship with her after that. I like interpretation of the ending.
Farmersutra
Tourist
i was thinking it wwould be great if zooier than thou podcast would do relevant clips of films or from audio sources but i expect there are copyright issues , i dunno ,maybe not, its a free podcast fair use and all that.
WhaleSong
Zooville Settler
In the early 1990s, Saturday Night Live did a spoof of a commercial for Calvin Klein's Obsession: Canis Cologne for Dogs by Calvin Klein.
It's not a positive depiction, but in American Pie Presents: The Naked Mile, the main characters discovers that an "enemy" is attracted to sheep. They challenge the guy to a public contest: Both guys will get a lap dance from a girl and whoever gets hard first loses. The sheep guy gets a lap dance from a girl who is not conventionally attractive, but is wearing a sheep costume and making "Baaaa..." sounds. He gets aroused and loses the contest, but is also humiliated because he's turned on by her sheep act.
In the TV show Lost Girl there's a werewolf named Dyson. After seeing him transform, the character Kenzi giddily commented on seeing his "wolfie bits."
In the science-fiction novel The Android's Dream, one of the main characters is a sheep/human hybrid, although she looked like a normal human (her sheep DNA was inactive). Her biological father was a human male "zoophile," her biological mother was a genetically engineered sheep-woman who was specifically created for "zoophiles" to have sex with. When the sheep-woman had a healthy human baby as a result, the baby was discretely put up for adoption. Neither the hybrid woman nor her adopted parents knew of her origins.
It's not a positive depiction, but in American Pie Presents: The Naked Mile, the main characters discovers that an "enemy" is attracted to sheep. They challenge the guy to a public contest: Both guys will get a lap dance from a girl and whoever gets hard first loses. The sheep guy gets a lap dance from a girl who is not conventionally attractive, but is wearing a sheep costume and making "Baaaa..." sounds. He gets aroused and loses the contest, but is also humiliated because he's turned on by her sheep act.
In the TV show Lost Girl there's a werewolf named Dyson. After seeing him transform, the character Kenzi giddily commented on seeing his "wolfie bits."
In the science-fiction novel The Android's Dream, one of the main characters is a sheep/human hybrid, although she looked like a normal human (her sheep DNA was inactive). Her biological father was a human male "zoophile," her biological mother was a genetically engineered sheep-woman who was specifically created for "zoophiles" to have sex with. When the sheep-woman had a healthy human baby as a result, the baby was discretely put up for adoption. Neither the hybrid woman nor her adopted parents knew of her origins.
WhaleSong
Zooville Settler
Well, a few people have already mentioned the TV show The Magicians. I'd like to discuss it in more detail because the show's creators and characters seem to be open-minded about human-animal love. Also, I think it's a great show and I highly recommend it. (It's available on Netflix.) I'll begin with a summary of the show's premise, then I'll review how it handles the topic of bestiality.
The Magicians TV show is based on a series of books, which I have not read. It's my understanding that the books have some pretty significant differences. The show is about some young people in their 20s going off to a secret, hidden university (Brakebills) to study magic at a grad school level. It's sort of a cross between Harry Potter and the Chronicles of Narnia, with a little bit of Peter Pan thrown in, but with darker, with very adult themes.
The main character, Quentin, is obsessed with a series of children's books about a group of siblings from Earth who travel through various portals to the magical world of Fillory where they have various adventures. The characters eventually discover that Fillory is real and are able to travel there. The story takes place both on Earth and in Fillory, with some characters travelling back and forth between the two worlds. The gods of Fillory are two anthropomorphic rams, Ember and Umber. To aid the heros on their quest, Ember offers them his "essence" (a bottle of his semen), which one of them has to drink. ("Have You Brought Me Little Cakes?" Season 1, Episode 13.)
Two of the main characters, Quentin and Elliot, are both bisexual. Quentin prefers women, Elliot prefers men. There's a bittersweet "alternative timeline" episode where they spend their lives together.
- In "Impractical Applications" (Season 1, Episode 6), the senior students put the new students through a sort of hazing ritual. There's a horse involved. At one point the new students are told that they need to take turns blowing the horse. The joke is that Quentin, the main character, seems somewhat willing to do it.
- In "Thirty-Nine Graves" (Season 1, Episode 12), we learn that a group of Brakebills students traveled to Fillory where one of them has sex with a talking horse. It's not a crime in Fillory because talking animals can give consent, although it's still taboo.
- A minor, recurring character is Rafe, the human male translator for Abigail the Sloth, the representative of the talking animals on the Fillorian High Council. Some of the other characters tease him by joking that he's in love with her, which turns out to be true.
- One of the supporting characters has sex with a werewolf (off-screen). He admits that it's strange but also says it's cool "because who get to do that?" On another occasion he mentions having a threesome with two harpies.
- The most significant zoo-postive episode is "The Fillorian Candidate" (Season 3, Episode 12). Elliot learns that his "daughter" is in love with a talking bear. (She's not really his daughter--it's a long story.) Elliot's best friend Margo says she's fine with it as long as its consensual. Although somewhat taken aback, Elliot says, "Well, then, I will say what I wish my father had said to me: I'm so happy you're dating a bear." Margo wins the support of the talking animals who believe that if the can intermarry with humans, they will be treated as equals. (Humans run Fillory even though they are significantly outnumbered by talking animals.)
FF24
Tourist
Actually, there are very strict rules in those countries against bestiality. The holy Quran explicitly forbids bestiality and states that punishments for such crimes should be the execution of both the person and the animal. The stereotype that middle Easterners copulate with animals for the most part false.
Public opinion in developed and urban areas in the Middle East are very negative towards zoophilia. However rural areas tend to be more ignorant about such laws.
M
MareButtUddrrLovrr
Guest
I lived in such a rural area when 9/11 happened. That day just before I clocked in to work, one of my co-workers (whom I've unfriended just 2 weeks ago due to irreconcilable political differences) made the comment "time to go downrange and shoot some camel-humpers."
It never dawned on me how racist he truly was until these past few months.
WhaleSong
Zooville Settler
Now that you mention it, he's made other jokes about finding animals attractive.
Actually the prohibition is not in the Qur'an itself, it's in the Hadiths and the punishment varies depending on which hadiths are accepted in which area. Rural Pakistan and around it, donkey shagging is almost the norm for young males there.
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TaintedPetXoX
Tourist
InuShitsuji
Tourist
Not to forget Adam Driver ?
WhaleSong
Zooville Settler
Do you know if he ever followed-up on his statement, either reaffirming his position or indicating that he had changed his mind? (I'm too lazy to look it up.) I wouldn't be surprised if he got a lot of negative responses, including a bunch of people presenting him with various "bestiality is wrong and should be illegal because..." arguments. If they convinced him, he would likely say so.
His defense of bestiality is not wrong, but it's weak, and easily refuted by various anti-bestiality arguments. Of course, we have our own arguments to refute those arguments, but few people are willing to consider them, including people in the media or in positions of power. Even if we convinced some of them, few of them would stick their necks out for us. Cenk's small, weak, one-time defense of bestiality was used against him in his run for Congress with headlines like "Democrat wants to legalize bestiality!" so most people who might have similar views would be very unlikely to say so publicly given the consequences they might face for taking such a position.
Fortunately, there are people in the legal system who think that prosecuting people for bestiality is a waste of time and resources unless there's evidence the animal was harmed. I can think of one case where the animal was assessed, found to be healthy and happy, and the judge dismissed the case. Of course, the case was reported in the media, so the guy still probably suffered some pretty serious consequences. His relationships with family, friends, and co-workers may have been damaged or destroyed, and he may have difficulty finding a home or a job.
FF24
Tourist
He has made a few remarks on bestiality in light in the past. This time around, there was significant backlash to his statement from both his coworkers to his political rivals. Bernie Sanders retracted his endorsement of Cenk shorter after he made that statement. However he also has a history a sexist remarks and has at one point denied the Armenian genocide. So his bestiality comments may have contributed to the withdrawal but was not the only reason.
I do not know whether or not he made any follow up statements because I don't have the time to listen through every single talk show hes hosted. What I do know is that his co-workers were not happy with him. He hasn't made any remarks since then that went viral.
What-there-once-was
Tourist
I LOVE The Magicians, it's one of my favourite tv shows ever. I would recommend it to anyone that likes fantasy or even if fantasy is not what they would usually watch, I would still tell them to give it a go.
Just be aware that as great as it is, it can get real dark sometimes and goes over some pretty dark topics.
There's a recent movie on Netflix called Desperados that has a scene with a woman being humped by a dolphin. She stares into its eyes and it swims away, but then jumps out of the water at her a minute later. They actually show a closeup, slow motion view of his penis slapping her in the face!
P
pupwhoshaggedme
Guest
In deadwood one of the characters talks about fuckin horses and he jacks off and cums against one of their body. You don't see the climax but it almost get him killed.
I've read nearly all his books, the beginnings of centaurs was when a bunch of soldiers came across the love stream with their mares, not the other way around.
He definitely has written about bestiality a lot, the first book in the Apprentice Adept series Split Infinity has the main character have sex with a unicorn mare while she's in human form, and a latter book his son and the unicorn's daughter married after having sex in all three of her forms, including unicorn.
Sweetness
Citizen of Zooville
I used to have the main character as my profile pic ?.
Nothing sexual happens between the cat and the human characters. However this screenshot is from Persona 5 Royal so there's a possibility that the cat becomes human briefly.