have a tumor, why the f not.

nekdoneco123

nekdoneco123

Esteemed Citizen of ZV
i found a random bulge in one of my girl's teats, made an appointment at the vet immediately. the vet also found another much smaller one between her front legs. took a sample of both for biopsy. results came in today. the larger one is malign, the smaller one is "inconclusive".

the plan was to cut out both for further testing (how likely it is there's more than the two, how likely it is to reappear) and spay her too, but that's the price i'm willing to pay for more time with her.
she went into heat three days ago... extra blood circulating in her teats and overall hormonal imbalance caused by it means no surgery.
got told to make an appointment two months after the heat cycle ends to see if the surgery is still possible/relevant (whatever the bigger bastard didn't eat too much of her).
she's almost nine and how/if she handles anesthesia is another fun thing to think about.

not knowing if i'm making another rainbow bridge post soon or not (i sure as fuck am not ready for her to go) is the best feeling in the world...
 
That fucking sucks, but it sounds like you're doing everything you can for her right now. Just gotta hold her close and wait I guess... wishing the best for both of you.
 
nekdoneco123 said:
i found a random bulge in one of my girl's teats, made an appointment at the vet immediately. the vet also found another much smaller one between her front legs. took a sample of both for biopsy. results came in today. the larger one is malign, the smaller one is "inconclusive".

the plan was to cut out both for further testing (how likely it is there's more than the two, how likely it is to reappear) and spay her too, but that's the price i'm willing to pay for more time with her.
she went into heat three days ago... extra blood circulating in her teats and overall hormonal imbalance caused by it means no surgery.
got told to make an appointment two months after the heat cycle ends to see if the surgery is still possible/relevant (whatever the bigger bastard didn't eat too much of her).
she's almost nine and how/if she handles anesthesia is another fun thing to think about.

not knowing if i'm making another rainbow bridge post soon or not (i sure as fuck am not ready for her to go) is the best feeling in the world...
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I'm sorry to hear about the tumors, it can be hard to deal with.
Typically if the bitch is over 3 there's not much to be gained from a spay in regard to prevention of mammary tumors from what I have read. There are other reasons for spay, but mentioning it in case that was the motivating factor.

I haven't dealt with mammary tumors, but I have dealt with other cancerous tumors and can say that keeping a watchful eye, checking for lumps and having them excised quickly can be productive. Sometimes finding a new vet for the tumors can be helpful, just as with doctors some are better than others at specific problems.
 
egoldstein said:
I'm sorry to hear about the tumors, it can be hard to deal with.
Typically if the bitch is over 3 there's not much to be gained from a spay in regard to prevention of mammary tumors from what I have read. There are other reasons for spay, but mentioning it in case that was the motivating factor.

I haven't dealt with mammary tumors, but I have dealt with other cancerous tumors and can say that keeping a watchful eye, checking for lumps and having them excised quickly can be productive. Sometimes finding a new vet for the tumors can be helpful, just as with doctors some are better than others at specific problems.
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the spay wasn't my decision. i just got told what was supposed to happen. take out the tumor out of her teat (possibly the teat/whole row of teats based on damage caused as well) and spay her during the same surgery, because the tumors (the ones found or the possible additional ones) can react to the hormonal changes of heats or fake pregnancies.

keeping a watchful eye is all i can do now.

as for the vet, i have full faith in the ones i'm visiting. it's a clinic, not a single vet, consisting of specialized ppl such as orthopedist, dentist and oncologist. they aren't exactly cheap, my girl's health is worth it.
 
Do not be so optimist you do not prepare yourself, sure. But DO keep the realistic hope it won't be for the worse at all.

If it is just starting, it has not spread and is in an easy part to operate there are chances it may be a good outcome. If it is advisable, go for chem later just in case there was something left.

Best wishes on it
 
I am so sorry to hear that, fingers crossed for a succesful treatment
 
IMHO I'd refuse the spay. Tell them you just feel like digging that deep at her age adds risk. He's just yanking those parts out because they MIGHT have cancer and what good is that stuff anyways, and a lot of vets are indoctrinated to spay and neuter everything in sight. He's changing a superficial skin surgery to a major surgery.
 
PonyTrot said:
IMHO I'd refuse the spay. Tell them you just feel like digging that deep at her age adds risk. He's just yanking those parts out because they MIGHT have cancer and what good is that stuff anyways, and a lot of vets are indoctrinated to spay and neuter everything in sight. He's changing a superficial skin surgery to a major surgery.
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No.
At this point is "whatever it it has a better chance, do it"
 
PonyTrot said:
IMHO I'd refuse the spay. Tell them you just feel like digging that deep at her age adds risk. He's just yanking those parts out because they MIGHT have cancer and what good is that stuff anyways, and a lot of vets are indoctrinated to spay and neuter everything in sight. He's changing a superficial skin surgery to a major surgery.
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So you would assume the vet is a moron and possibly put the poor lady pup at risk of a very painful, lingering death? Cancer is never to be taken lightly. Who's the expert you or him? Just stop being selfish for a moment. Whats more important a cancer free pup you can have around for many more happy years as loving loyal friend or a possible cancer riddle sex puppet? One does what is necessary and even extreme where cancer is concerned. The doctor did tests and has most likely had experience with this kind of thing and knows what the possibilities are where this kind of cancer is concerned. Never assume anything it makes you a royal ass. There are valid reasons to spay and neuter not all dogs need these bits because not all owners are responsible about their pets behavior and let them run amuck and animals are not able to control their instinct and urges. Also in some instances it saves their lives.

As to nekdoneco123 I am sorry to hear about your pups issues and hope everything is going well for you and her. Truly sucks when a loved one has any kind of life threatening issue.
 
minor update: her heat is now over and both tumors (that we know of) grown a bit. awesome...
she's still her happy self. eats and drinks and chills way too close to the fireplace.
PonyTrot said:
IMHO I'd refuse the spay. Tell them you just feel like digging that deep at her age adds risk. He's just yanking those parts out because they MIGHT have cancer and what good is that stuff anyways, and a lot of vets are indoctrinated to spay and neuter everything in sight. He's changing a superficial skin surgery to a major surgery.
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yeah, if i get to fuck her is so low on my list of what i want from her.. the vets tell me what they feel like is or isn't added risk and surprisingly, leaving a possibly tumor ridden uterus (a thing that killed her mother last year) inside her is kind of an added risk.

also, vets being "indoctrinated to mutilate on sight" feels like an american thing. in her almost nine years of age, this is literally the first time ever a spay got mentioned.
 
Did he xray her or do anything to diagnose cancer in the repro tract? You're worried about the anesthesia, the difference in what it takes for a spay vs a tumor close to the skin is a world apart.

Obviously he's more worried about the surgery then the cancer. You WOULD NOT leave an aggressive cancer to grow for two months.

I'm not a vet, but being a vet doesn't make him magical.

I wouldn't do it. lacking real evidence of cancer in those organs. Radical mastectomy makes more sense, but on a dog that would be a gnarly surgery, tearing her open from stem to stern.
 
nekdoneco123 said:
minor update: her heat is now over and both tumors (that we know of) grown a bit. awesome...
she's still her happy self. eats and drinks and chills way too close to the fireplace.

yeah, if i get to fuck her is so low on my list of what i want from her.. the vets tell me what they feel like is or isn't added risk and surprisingly, leaving a possibly tumor ridden uterus (a thing that killed her mother last year) inside her is kind of an added risk.

also, vets being "indoctrinated to mutilate on sight" feels like an american thing. in her almost nine years of age, this is literally the first time ever a spay got mentioned.
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Sorry to hear that things have gotten a bit more not so right. *offers friendly, supportive hugs* No fun when a loved one is ill and requires drastic measures to fix it.

I have had friends and family members that have been afflicted by various forms of cancer. Lung, breast, colon, prostate, skin, etc.. I myself have had basil cell carcinoma. My grandmother died from lung cancer years ago as did a good friend and co-worker. The coworker was fine one week and dead the next. The cancer had spread throughout her entire body without her even knowing she had cancer. So yeah I get ya and your desire to get to the very root of it and do whatever it takes to make your pup better.

In this instance I feel your vet is giving you very sound advice based on years of experience and does not want her to suffer needlessly and give her the best years possible to come.


As to the spay and neuter thing it varies from place to place here in the us. It is recommended most often but not forced on you. About the only time it is forced is when you get a pet from the pound or animal rescue. Most often it is already taken care of if the animal was mature when it was taken in. You are asked to do it if you take a puppy or kitten most often written into the contract you are required to fill out. The us is not a wholesale chop and channel shop as some would have you believe.

The best of luck to you both.
 
nekdoneco123 said:
minor update: her heat is now over and both tumors (that we know of) grown a bit. awesome...
she's still her happy self. eats and drinks and chills way too close to the fireplace.
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It is very good that she is still happy and eating, drinking ok, they are good signs that she is not currently suffering at all from the tumors.
nekdoneco123 said:
yeah, if i get to fuck her is so low on my list of what i want from her.. the vets tell me what they feel like is or isn't added risk and surprisingly, leaving a possibly tumor ridden uterus (a thing that killed her mother last year) inside her is kind of an added risk.
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Indeed you love her! So it is right that sex should be far from the most important thing to you. Any operation comes with it's own risks but if spaying gives her any increase in chances to get past this problem then that would be the path I'd be taking, unless the anesthetic is a bigger risk than not doing anything. If heaven forbid something did happen in surgery at least she would be asleep and wouldn't suffer any pain.

I wish your girl all the best that she can get past all this and get to stay with you for more years to come.
 
Heat, more blood irrigation. Not a big surprise it grew. But as long as it is still the same, it should not make a big difference in the procedure or outcome.

*whishes for the best*
 
So sorry to hear this, hope they are able to help her and are able to give her another couple of years to live.
Best wishes for the both of you.
 
Sorry to hear you're going through that, but it sounds like she's getting the best care.

FWIW, General anesthesia is scary, but it sounds like she's in capable hands and if she doesn't have other serious health issues it would be low risk of serious complications. They've come a really long way in the last 10-15 years with technique and available drugs.

As for spaying, even though studies haven't all shown there's a benefit for survival, there's still a strong argument for it. Out of the many dozen types of mammary tumors, certain types have less chances of recurring if the dog is spayed, others are hormone responsive and spaying could help long term outcome. To know which type it is, the tumor has to be removed and sent to the lab for specialized testing (you'll likely need an oncologist to navigate this), so you won't know ahead of the surgery. If you consider that, plus the frequency of uterine or ovarian disease in older intact females, many will prefer getting everything done in one go vs putting the dog through a second surgery and recuperation. If you're already in contact with an oncologist, they would be the best person to help you find what's best for your dog.

Prognosis varies with a bunch of factors, but many of these dogs do great after surgery. Things that improve her chances are if tumors are <3cm in diameter, if they're fully removed with clean margins, if they're not metastasized, the type if cancer it is and receptors it has, and the quality of care she gets.

Best of luck through all this
 
nekdoneco123 said:
i found a random bulge in one of my girl's teats, made an appointment at the vet immediately. the vet also found another much smaller one between her front legs. took a sample of both for biopsy. results came in today. the larger one is malign, the smaller one is "inconclusive".

the plan was to cut out both for further testing (how likely it is there's more than the two, how likely it is to reappear) and spay her too, but that's the price i'm willing to pay for more time with her.
she went into heat three days ago... extra blood circulating in her teats and overall hormonal imbalance caused by it means no surgery.
got told to make an appointment two months after the heat cycle ends to see if the surgery is still possible/relevant (whatever the bigger bastard didn't eat too much of her).
she's almost nine and how/if she handles anesthesia is another fun thing to think about.

not knowing if i'm making another rainbow bridge post soon or not (i sure as fuck am not ready for her to go) is the best feeling in the world...
Click to expand...
thinking about you and your girl. hoping for the best
 
Strayward said:
Sorry to hear you're going through that, but it sounds like she's getting the best care.

FWIW, General anesthesia is scary, but it sounds like she's in capable hands and if she doesn't have other serious health issues it would be low risk of serious complications. They've come a really long way in the last 10-15 years with technique and available drugs.

As for spaying, even though studies haven't all shown there's a benefit for survival, there's still a strong argument for it. Out of the many dozen types of mammary tumors, certain types have less chances of recurring if the dog is spayed, others are hormone responsive and spaying could help long term outcome. To know which type it is, the tumor has to be removed and sent to the lab for specialized testing (you'll likely need an oncologist to navigate this), so you won't know ahead of the surgery. If you consider that, plus the frequency of uterine or ovarian disease in older intact females, many will prefer getting everything done in one go vs putting the dog through a second surgery and recuperation. If you're already in contact with an oncologist, they would be the best person to help you find what's best for your dog.

Prognosis varies with a bunch of factors, but many of these dogs do great after surgery. Things that improve her chances are if tumors are <3cm in diameter, if they're fully removed with clean margins, if they're not metastasized, the type if cancer it is and receptors it has, and the quality of care she gets.

Best of luck through all this
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In this case it best to err on the side of caution to preserve the pups best possible life for sure.
 
so two months is up and we were at the vet today. the smaller tumor between her front legs shrunk to be less than a centimeter big, the bigger one grew by about two centimeters to a total of almost four centimeters in diameter. there's a new "maybe tumor" on her ribs... she got some blood taken and we're currently waiting for the lab results which should take a day or two. based on the results, we'll be getting an appointment with a surgeon to plan the next moves, spay seems inevitable, she's fake pregnant on top of things at the moment and the one teat with the tumor in it "doesn't work" so mastectomy (i think it's what mammary gland removal is called) is also on the table.

the vet tried to assure me that with today's methods, a surgery of this scale should be very low-risk even if she's older. she's turning nine in a few months and i do have some doubts....

otherwise, she's doing kinda good. eats, drinks and tries to be close to me at all times, but got a little aggressive towards other dogs (including my other dogs) and strangers. i had to purchase a muzzle before going to the vet today.
 
My fingers are crossed. Hopefully things turn out the best they can go for her and there's many more years of shared happiness and good times between you two, nekdoneco.
 
nekdoneco123 said:
so two months is up and we were at the vet today. the smaller tumor between her front legs shrunk to be less than a centimeter big, the bigger one grew by about two centimeters to a total of almost four centimeters in diameter. there's a new "maybe tumor" on her ribs... she got some blood taken and we're currently waiting for the lab results which should take a day or two. based on the results, we'll be getting an appointment with a surgeon to plan the next moves, spay seems inevitable, she's fake pregnant on top of things at the moment and the one teat with the tumor in it "doesn't work" so mastectomy (i think it's what mammary gland removal is called) is also on the table.

the vet tried to assure me that with today's methods, a surgery of this scale should be very low-risk even if she's older. she's turning nine in a few months and i do have some doubts....

otherwise, she's doing kinda good. eats, drinks and tries to be close to me at all times, but got a little aggressive towards other dogs (including my other dogs) and strangers. i had to purchase a muzzle before going to the vet today.
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Thank you for keeping us all posted. I'm crossing Floofs other fingers, and he vowed to leave them that way until everything is better for you :)

honestly though, I hope everything goes well
 
nekdoneco123 said:
thanks. i'd love a few more years of the "i'm not mad, just disappointed" looks she gives me whenever the food i'm making actually isn't for her.
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Its even more fun when they play all cute and beg. I hope you get many more years with your beloved.
 
Good news and bad news... totally crossing fingers too


nekdoneco123 said:
the vet tried to assure me that with today's methods, a surgery of this scale should be very low-risk even if she's older. she's turning nine in a few months and i do have some doubts...
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Totally time to rely on the vet. Whatever the outcome, the chances of a surgery are much better than leaving her alone.

To be totally blunt. The intention is what counts. If things go mistly right you get some good aditional time with her. Things going *terribly* bad, she would save the suffering associated with the final steps of that illness.

Keep her happy. Prepare some good food -only- for her this days 😁
 
My best thoughts for the two of you, hopefully they can help her successfully and you can have more time together.
 
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