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Doug Spink 1971-2020

caniformia said:
I've seen some comments mentioning that he wasn't the best representative of zoos, but I also don't see many public representatives for zoos in general (all I recall recently are Malcolm Brenner and George Willard aka Mark Matthews). The people willing to boldly step into the light and risk it all when it comes to trying to legitimize zoophilia are few and far between. It's easier to judge than to be judged.
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Too true. I shared a quote in another thread from Teddy Roosevelt that Fausty was fond of:

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”


caniformia said:
May he rest in peace, knowing he'll be immortalized with the continuation of his efforts to help build a community and legitimize zoophilia for a long time to come. I also hope that ZooTT stays around. It's really refreshing knowing there's an entertaining and informative podcast on the subject!
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Rest assured, we're not going anywhere <3 <3
 
After much grieving, finally on here to thank everyone for their thoughts and prayers after Doug's passing. It's been almost 5 weeks and the pain of his passing has yet to subside. I know there are conflicted stories out there about who he was and who he tried to be for the community at large.

Ultimately, he only spoke his truth and did what he thought was best to protect his family, both 2 legger and 4. Being there at the end as he closed his eyes for the final time, I know that he was disappointed in leaving you all behind with so so so much left undone to better the community and all of his loved ones. So many projects of activism to bring Zoos forward in society. We often had discussions on what directions he wanted to go and through the work of ZooTT and with Toggle and the rest of the collaborators currently on board, we will do our best to seek that vision. His legacy is one that I will work on and in due time I hope that it's one that we can all be proud of no matter your personal feelings towards him and his past actions.

I would wish that everyone can experience the genuine Love and Companionship that I had with Doug and I wish that you hold your Loved ones ever closer everyday, for things change rapidly and without notice.

Finally, Doug would often say, "we never lose our way as the path is always there, we must realize that and begin the path with a knowing step". Our path forward is clear, to exemplify ourselves with courage, perseverance, but most importantly with kindness.
 
I'm truly sorry for your loss. It hits damn close to home, it's a huge reality check seeing those younger than you dieing.

"Apparently" is a rather dangerous word, too many people take it to mean actually.
 
In truth, I did not know anything about him. Various rumors arrived, both positive and negative, about a certain "Fausty". There were more negative ones, but there was nothing to be surprised at, because they were rumors. The Russian community is closed, we are not used to paying attention to what is far from us. I just carefully browse through this thread. To draw conclusions quickly is not in my rules. I didn’t want anyone and I do not want to offend. If I accidentally did this, I apologize, it was not intentional.
 
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I think that some people who have knew him for more than a few years know about more of that negative stuff, but I guess if you want to find a universal positive from his life, one thing he did say is that the zen concept of being In the Now is what matters, and that's a fair lesson for many: We worry about the past or the future, but don't stop and smell the flowers. We should do that, while we still can.
 
ScreamingTrees said:
I think that some people who have knew him for more than a few years know about more of that negative stuff, but I guess if you want to find a universal positive from his life, one thing he did say is that the zen concept of being In the Now is what matters, and that's a fair lesson for many: We worry about the past or the future, but don't stop and smell the flowers. We should do that, while we still can.
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I bet it wasn't just the flowers Fausty "smelled", but a lots of other stuff too. Being vocal is not always what people often call "courageous", I'd call it "outrageous". It's one thing to live your life in "YOLO" mode, but Fausty should have learned in uncountable number of occasions that (his) actions leads to reactions. And many times with bad consequences for the animals under his care. It's easy to finger-point a former girlfriend or fate, but I bet he really believed his own mythology of being smart by being more elaborate than the average Joe. If he was that smart, he wouldn't have ended in that path. He sure might have been a great friend for his fellows, but the spotlights he attracted on zoophiles as a whole were just as bad as the Enumclaw's death case of Mr Hands. His drug smuggler past, to his late farm's burst by the police (and the "gerbils" affair), his escape from parole, it just paint an asocial kind of people that just cannot be taken seriously. Perhaps he had a kind of fame in the narrow crowd of "animal fuckers", perhaps he had his little victory when he defended himself front of a court, but I wouldn't say his life was a blossoming success.

My biggest grief is that he was selfish and naive, fucking animals doesn't require citizens' consent. There are already many more priorities for animals' well being than advocating for the right to bone them in public. One would say it was to protect and defend the zoophiles gotten caught, I'd say why getting caught in the first place? Because the zoophile was fence hoping? Because he was fucking the family dog in broad daylight? I'd call this natural selection. Do we really need a law to protect these people? Before the now famous Enumclaw's case, there was no specific law against zoophiles, one being caught would simply get a fine for moral offense or trespassing. Now there are specific laws against fucking animals, with rather harsh sentences. That zoophiles find them stupid, unlawful, hypocrite, whatever, doesn't change the fact that the system they're living in, that they're part of, doesn't favor animals' right as a whole, and animals' sexuality specifically, under a progressive light. And for that, despite the many evidences Fausty had under first hand experience, he quite deliberately refused to acknowledge that there are many other ways to fight the system but the frontal clash.

Zoophiles persists to pretend there is a kinda universal zoophile's pride that needs to be vocalized. That's sure might help some people in the closet coming out, realizing about their inner attraction toward animals, but if that's really the case, the internet is now already full of information to find the track to this forum. The biggest problem is the dangerous attention it can draw on zoophiles, as we're now in an era were vocal people standing for conservatism and moral values are making quite a fuss in the media and the political side, because you know, protecting the poor animals from the sexual predators is such an easy way to get some fame, there's just no way to get a logical stance to get zoophiles' arguments being heard. Not that the material shouldn't be presented to scrutiny and trialed, but not shove down people's throat. Like I said before, there are many more priorities than fighting for the right to bone animals without risking legal consequences. Many people have fucked animals in the past without getting caught, many people speed on the highway without getting caught, there's just no valid reason to fight for the freedom of speeding.

Fuck your animals if your wish, but select carefully the audience to which you want to share your sexual prowess with. That's intelligence. Not invinting some english man in your farm to fuck dogs while you're blatantly under scrutiny by legal forces of all kind. That's stupidity.
 
I dunno, I thought it was a pretty sane post. I think some of the 'wrong' stuff like "the gerbils" are indeed written in the press that way, so while the "facts" are surely different than what the press wrote, 99% of people reading the press will end up seeing and walking away remembering all that creepy gerbil stuff, they would not be seeing Fausty's writing or anything. Basically that gerbil story is part of our legacy now. "I hear they had an animal sex brothel and were into gerbling. Gross."

Yay, us.

I think that was sort of Horst's point: Sure Fausty might have *tried to do* a bunch of stuff, but mostly the legacy of that stuff is his lost animals and a LOT of probably not very helpful headlines. Maybe that's supposed to be the point? Get as much press as possible so that people know zoos exist, even if it's bad press and they go to jail??

PS: I'm being a bit harsh about legacy, but I have no idea really what Fausty has been up to lately, but I sure know what he was up to back a while ago, and am basing much of my cynicism on that
 
The man’s life was what it was, and there are any number of criticisms to make about it, but the attitudes those criticisms are used to justify are the responsibility of those making them. Those of us who found reasons in the example of his life to believe in ourselves and each other are going to continue to work to support each other and manifest as decent a situation as we can; we might not have done that otherwise.

Personally, cynicism and discouragement never got me anywhere, and I’m not buying into that shit now or at any point.
 
I became interested in getting involved in the zoo community again at January 2020, and heard one week after his passing that he has.. passed.

I have honestly cried over his passing. I never knew him, just followed his case closely and when I heard him in Zooier Than Thou, I really came to be fond of him.
How close I was to be able to actually send him a message and tell him "Hey, I think you're pretty cool" and just missed it like that? I'm so much more aware of being kind and nice to my friends and relatives now. I'm going to tell everyone I know how much I appreciate them.
Fausty was "just a random person" to me in the end, but what he represented - a zoophile who never gives up and lives out of the closet out and proud, yeah, that's special. I can't stop thinking about it.

Take care now, everybody. Remember to be kind.
 

Would like to hear why you chose this song. It feels like there's more that needs to be said from a song like that.
 
ZeMenDepo said:
Would like to hear why you chose this song. It feels like there's more that needs to be said from a song like that.
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I guess you're right, though this is a bit difficult to put into words.
Doug introduced me to that artist, who became one of my favorite musicians, and when I hear the song it makes me cry and think of him. I can't think of another person I've never met IRL who's spent more time occupying my thoughts, and at times that's felt like a flaw/curse. Doug's sharp intellect and and arguments where one of few voices that gave me courage to try and join the zoo community and participate, many many years ago...and that feels like a double edge sword tbh- these idea's and the prejudice they evoke in some people, it just doesn't feel worth the risk...perhaps to me, but not to my family... Who am I, to take such risks with their lives, that they could never understand? Doug made me feel like...less of an outcast/freak...like there where good and smart people involved in zoo; respectable people worth knowing, real community. He made me feel like there was somehow a future in all this... At times, like watching him at H.O.P.E, with his custom "my horse is my husband' sticker on his laptop, he felt like a hero to me, a bold, fearless, reckless genius who might just somehow pull it all off, against all odds. He made me want to root for the impossible, or at least the extremely improbable. -he broke that barrier.

I disagreed with some of his opinions (on big things even), and he seamed far to idealistic to me, but he was so good at language and debate that I always looked forward to hearing what he had to say- whether we agreed or not, my arguments and understanding improved from the process- and I always felt thankful for it- he made me want to be more idealistic, made me feel guilty for NOT being more idealistic... I long to know more people like that- people I can disagree with, sharply, but still love and respect- so few people have made such an impression on me. I wish the whole world where like that. wish we could all see each other like that.

I feel at once a loss, and relieved that I didn't know Doug better- it's a strange confliction that that song captures perfectly. I was mostly watching from the sidelines, living a comparably mundane and safe life- he was out there talking risks, living on instinct, being himself, un-compromised, and uncompromising...Like an animal... There was something both beautiful, and frightening about that, something surreal- and his memory lingers like a ghost, still haunting me- I see him all around this place, in the 'tall grass', and I don't know what to think of it.
 
Sun&Seed said:
I guess you're right, though this is a bit difficult to put into words.
Doug introduced me to that artist, who became one of my favorite musicians, and when I hear the song it makes me cry and think of him. I can't think of another person I've never met IRL who's spent more time occupying my thoughts, and at times that's felt like a flaw/curse. Doug's sharp intellect and and arguments where one of few voices that gave me courage to try and join the zoo community and participate, many many years ago...and that feels like a double edge sword tbh- these idea's and the prejudice they evoke in some people, it just doesn't feel worth the risk...perhaps to me, but not to my family... Who am I, to take such risks with their lives, that they could never understand? Doug made me feel like...less of an outcast/freak...like there where good and smart people involved in zoo; respectable people worth knowing, real community. He made me feel like there was somehow a future in all this... At times, like watching him at H.O.P.E, with his custom "my horse is my husband' sticker on his laptop, he felt like a hero to me, a bold, fearless, reckless genius who might just somehow pull it all off, against all odds. He made me want to root for the impossible, or at least the extremely improbable. -he broke that barrier.

I disagreed with some of his opinions (on big things even), and he seamed far to idealistic to me, but he was so good at language and debate that I always looked forward to hearing what he had to say- whether we agreed or not, my arguments and understanding improved from the process- and I always felt thankful for it- he made me want to be more idealistic, made me feel guilty for NOT being more idealistic... I long to know more people like that- people I can disagree with, sharply, but still love and respect- so few people have made such an impression on me. I wish the whole world where like that. wish we could all see each other like that.

I feel at once a loss, and relieved that I didn't know Doug better- it's a strange confliction that that song captures perfectly. I was mostly watching from the sidelines, living a comparably mundane and safe life- he was out there talking risks, living on instinct, being himself, un-compromised, and uncompromising...Like an animal... There was something both beautiful, and frightening about that, something surreal- and his memory lingers like a ghost, still haunting me- I see him all around this place, in the 'tall grass', and I don't know what to think of it.
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Just thought I'd say this whole post was super touching. <3
 
Would you please cool down, gentlemen? While I can understand both your arguments and motivations, it's no place to go into a dick fight on a grave.

And as we're into mentioning historical events, while I was not physically present on site, I was personally in contact with the people involved with the Enumclaw's events, and I can attest that there is a rather clear before and after the shitstorm hit the fans.

Before, zoos were a niche in people's psyche, bad jokes about countryside peasants fucking the ewes and pigs. Got caught? No headlines in the news. The internet was still pretty new, most people on dlc, and not attracted attention of legal forces or activists.

After, laws getting passed against zoos spread larger and faster than covid-19, banks and credit card companies refused to process payment for bestiality web sites and services, leading to the demises of many online producers like petlust, beastranch, ...

As I've told you, I knew from first hand people involved that what happened was 95% accurately described in the Zoo movie, as well as police reports you can still read online: a bunch of drunk horny dudes going out for sex contest about who got the deepest intestine.

We know who lost this night, and there's absolutely nothing to get proud of. It was no liberation for zoophiles around the globe, everything bad that happened to us started mostly by this very moment someone lost a bet and was dumped like a sack of flesh front of a hospital.

So you can always pretend things happened differently, wearing pink tainted glasses, facts just shows that if you were ever going to fight for a right to bone your animals and getting approbation by your neighborhood, you'd better stick a rather empowering story telling.

Hence, there's no use to focus that much on the German or Dutch cases because it's just winning on formalities details of the laws, but get caught fucking an animal and they'll inevitably find a way or another to make your life a mess and your animals taken away.

That's reality. Because we're not even fighting on the same ground of LGBT people, because it's so easy to put words into animals' mouth as well as into God's mouth and pretend what they want or consent to. It's a double edged sword and we tend to abuse it too.
 
Horst Trapper said:
Would you please cool down, gentlemen? While I can understand both your arguments and motivations, it's no place to go into a dick fight on a grave.

And as we're into mentioning historical events, while I was not physically present on site, I was personally in contact with the people involved with the Enumclaw's events, and I can attest that there is a rather clear before and after the shitstorm hit the fans.

Before, zoos were a niche in people's psyche, bad jokes about countryside peasants fucking the ewes and pigs. Got caught? No headlines in the news. The internet was still pretty new, most people on dlc, and not attracted attention of legal forces or activists.

After, laws getting passed against zoos spread larger and faster than covid-19, banks and credit card companies refused to process payment for bestiality web sites and services, leading to the demises of many online producers like petlust, beastranch, ...
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I'll hold much of my comments on Mr Spink and just say I don't have a high opinion of him, some people struggle with issues all their lives and I think he falls into that category. Few I've ever met *meant* to cause problems and chaos and I think he's no different.

My reason for comment though is I don't think Enumclaw had much to do with the anti-zoo laws. I think there's a correlation and it served as a rally point for processes that were already well underway, but it could have easily been anyone else who was caught to serve that end as well. I think the main motivation for the anti-zoo laws was Lawrence vs Texas, which struck down the sodomy laws. With those removed, most places didn't have laws in place expressly condemning bestiality so there were already efforts to "fix" that oversight and I think the incident involving Mr Spink only served as an example, but as I said, it could have been any of the others who got caught.
 
Fucking a dog in the backyard and getting fucked by a stallion to death are two different kind of cases, thus I don't think the former would have made much to push anti-zoo laws that far as it is so "common" and doesn't involves the gruesome death of one person performing recorded group orgy sessions. That one was kinda enough to fill all the news and minds for years to come. Not heavy petting a dog which I bet many citizens could easily relate to in the privacy of their own home.
 
He looked preppy and was fairly stand-offish. He was not out as gay or as into having sex with animals. He had a golden retriever. I had a rescue golden retriever as well and thought it was weird that he wouldn't let our dogs socialize. A lot of quirky people go to Reed so he didn't really stand out much.
 
Ok, thanks, I also learnt a lot about his "hidden" faces on Kiwifarms. Of course it's Kiwifarms, they aren't the keenest persons around, but at least there are some revelations that enlighted me a bit about his past. Shame in a sense, I exchanged a lot of PMs with Douglas in the past, it always left me a sour taste, what was true in what he declared rather bluntly and what wasn't. His self-confidence was impressive though.
 
Jessica Benjamin said:
So did he actually pass away?
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He did, because of his politically charged presence both domestically and internationally and previous threats to his mom, she and I decided that posting an obituary was inviting further death threats to her doorstep. I wanted to do an obituary for dignity sake, however I wanted his mom to feel safe and secure in her home.

I sat there and held his hand and professed my love to him and he returned such as he took his last breaths.

That may not be enough proof to some, but know that every minute of every day I wish that he was still next to me, still holding my hand, and that I would never jinx or otherwise put that karma of faking a death into the universe.

And while I do have a copy of his death certificate, it remains unpublished online for reasons of security for his mom.

I've debated writing into Reed, as we were supposed to attend the reunion, he updated them last year and they published in the alumni periodical.
 
ZeMenDepo said:
He did, because of his politically charged presence both domestically and internationally and previous threats to his mom, she and I decided that posting an obituary was inviting further death threats to her doorstep. I wanted to do an obituary for dignity sake, however I wanted his mom to feel safe and secure in her home.

I sat there and held his hand and professed my love to him and he returned such as he took his last breaths.

That may not be enough proof to some, but know that every minute of every day I wish that he was still next to me, still holding my hand, and that I would never jinx or otherwise put that karma of faking a death into the universe.

And while I do have a copy of his death certificate, it remains unpublished online for reasons of security for his mom.

I've debated writing into Reed, as we were supposed to attend the reunion, he updated them last year and they published in the alumni periodical.
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If you write to the Reed Alumni magazine, the editor is Chris Lydgate. Send proof.
 
Jessica Benjamin said:
If you write to the Reed Alumni magazine, the editor is Chris Lydgate. Send proof.
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This is probably not really my place to ask, but I gotta wonder why someone who went to school with him came to ZooVille looking for proof that he died. I just find it a little weird :p We're on twitter and stuff, ya know x3
 
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