I Need Some Help

[BrotatoChip]

Hello all, this is my first post and it’s going to be a doozy. Before I go nuts, I just wanted to say a general thank you to anyone who has posted anything of substance related to people coming to terms with their zoophilia, here or otherwise. This goes out to nobody in particular, it’s really for everyone out there. In searching for meaning and answers, I’ve gone down many roads and ended up in all kinds of places. Googling “zoophilia” and things related to it can bring you to pornography, scholarly articles, forum posts of all kinds, and more. Going this route feels like falling down a chasm, information flashing by like the features of it’s walls, but some of the posts here have been the only hand holds I’ve been able to grab. My grip on this hold is extremely weak, but it’s the only one I’ve ever had, so thank you to anyone that’s written a tender post or kind word to others in trouble.

That out of the way, let me give a TLDR for the goal of this whole post. I am looking for a therapist (LMHC, psych, whatever) in the New England region of the US (MA/NH preferred) who is either A) a zoophile OR B) has a current patient who is a zoophile, who has discussed their zoophilia openly with this professional (Likely you, the reader). I don’t need you to refer me to them or your personal information if you don’t want to give it, I just need a promise that this professional has encountered this before and some contact information for them. I am honestly not certain which outcome (Practicing zoo vs. just aware of zoo) is preferable, and I will explain my conflict there later, but either is better than what I have now. I will also later explain why the therapist MUST have encountered zoophilia before. I’m tempted to expand here, but that would pretty well defeat the purpose of a TLDR now wouldn’t it?

I should point out: I do not have 10 posts yet so I can’t engage in PMs. I hope by interacting with this thread I can get there but my social anxiety, particularly around this topic, will make that extremely difficult. If a mod can allow me to PM before 10 posts, I would be beyond thrilled, otherwise I will try to get there myself. Apologies for seeking special treatment, I know the bar is seemingly not very high, but writing and posting this post in and of itself is already pretty agonizing and I'm expending what little mental energy I have left spilling my guts. If anyone is trying to PM me information, please give me some time to get the PM thing sorted. Thank you all for your patience.

So, down to some meat and details for anyone interested to read further…


Why Am I Writing This Post?


To be frank, for selfish reasons above anything else. I have never under any circumstance made even the tiniest hint of being a zoophile to anyone ever, in any context. I am at a place where I am CONSIDERING being ready to open up to someone about it, and I am taking the opportunity to use this as an initial relief valve of sorts. I have been entirely in my own head about this aspect of myself for an excruciatingly long time, and sitting to write this out and expose it in a safe and relatively anonymous context is something I feel compelled to do. I also want to gather and catalog some of my thoughts as therapy fodder in case I can find someone to talk to, so writing this post will help me do that.

I suppose the other aspect of this is for anyone else wandering around this site specifically or the internet at large. As I’d mentioned, I spent a long time searching for something to latch onto in this realm, and occasionally I’d find some solace in reading someones struggles or experiences with zoophilia. The posts were generally short and their contexts were scattered, but as long as they were genuine, I felt some value in reading them. I hope by spilling my guts and going full dissertation mode, I can provide something that has lots of meat for a wandering person’s search engine query to grab, as well as pack as many potential points of relatability as I can for someone looking for the comfort of shared experience.


Who Am I And What’s The Nature Of My Zoophilia?


I’m a man, in my mid-late thirties. I suppose I can share that I live in New England, if it weren’t obvious from my initial request.

[PREFACE TO THE MODS: I READ THE RULES ON CP, I AM TRYING TO WRITE THIS NEXT PORTION AS MILDLY AS POSSIBLE, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO EDIT IT IF NECESSARY]

I have known I was a zoophile since I was I believe 14 or 15. Earlier than that, I had one very specific set of fantasies of being in a large dog’s mouth (As in, the dog was giant and I was little). These were when I was quite young (<10) and were not overtly sexual in nature so I don’t consider them my “origin story” if you will. Starting at around 11 or 12, my peers began getting into girls and all of the things that entails. They would conspire to ogle naked women in any way they could and all of the normal coming of age stuff. I participated, but never at any time did I feel any draw to anything I saw or that was discussed. The things they were talking about seemed so unappealing to me, I was half convinced they were putting on a facade of interest or enjoyment. This continues for years, more and more of my peers going through the “normal” path of puberty and sexual interest. I am on the periphery, but cannot genuinely participate in any way.

One day, entirely out of the blue, the thought of female grizzly bears pops into my head as the first and only object of sexual desire I’ve ever had. I do not have the faintest idea where this came from (To this day), but I run with it, as I am excited to have desire for anything at all. This continues for some time. I know it is not normal, but it’s the only thing that “works” for me so I enjoy myself in secret, thinking this will go away. It does not. Eventually I lose interest in female bears, and shift to fantasies about submission to male bears. This is further alarming to my young self, but I cannot help myself. This shift to desire for submission to male animals remains to this day, I would say for animals my desire is probably 95/5 gay/straight, 90/10 submissive/dominant.

So, I continue on through puberty. I eventually find information, pictures, videos and stories on the internet, as under supervised males are wont to do with an internet connection and raging hormones. My fantasies expand in all kinds of wild directions, I’m finding attraction across the entire animal kingdom. My preferences eventually settle on, as they seem to tend to do for many, dogs and horses. For dogs, I am most attracted to large breeds, with Saint Bernards being top of the list. Nowadays, my primary attraction is to dogs almost exclusively, thought sometimes my thoughts wander to horses.

I have, with one exception so small I hesitate to mention it, not engaged with an animal sexually ever. I feel as though I work too much to properly care for a dog, among other complications, and the “opportunity” (I don’t mean to be crass or disrespectful, I think you understand what I mean) outside of direct ownership never really presented itself to me before. The desire is definitely there, I just don’t think I can do it ethically or practically.

I’ve sometimes wondered if my fantasies were just that, and being faced with a living breathing animal would show me I didn’t really have the desire. Every now and again though, I’ve been in situations where I had non-sexual contact with large breed dogs and horses and I cannot explain how excited I become. If I get near to or touch a large breed dog, it makes me want to jump out of my skin. I get lightheaded in a very specific way that feels so exhilarating it’s difficult to maintain composure. Being near them makes me want to melt and is almost indescribable. The sex appeal is absolutely through the roof, I really can’t over exaggerate.

As far as romantics are concerned, I can’t say. I’ve never had or been around a dog that I’m “interested” in long enough to determine what that dynamic is like. As I age though, I have found my thoughts are shifting away from sex and more to non-sexual engagements with large breed dogs, though the sexual desire certainly remains.


How Do I Interact With Humans, Sexually Or Romantically?


I have never, ever, had any sexual thought or fantasy about a human of any gender, race, age, build, or whatever that I did not consciously try to force into my mind. If I’m not trying to make myself think of humans in this way, I do not even consider humans a possible object of sexual interaction in any context, no matter how mild. It’s genuinely like if you were to ask me if I find potatoes sexy. It’s not just that I don’t find them sexy, I can’t even consider them through the prism of sex. If I force myself to try to think of humans in this way (I have tried, and I REALLY have to force myself to do it) I find the idea of sex with another person repulsive enough that I don’t think I’d ever consider it.

Romantically, I have had mostly negative experiences, though I am in a relationship with a woman now that I really enjoy. I present as asexual to her, she is fine with this and unaware of my zoophilia. I am conflicted about changing this, but I’m nowhere near that yet. Prior to her, I think I had maybe two dates ever. Both were with women, both times the woman initiated. I mostly went along to maintain what little appearance of sexual normalcy I had, and partially to see how I would feel about it (Considering it might “wake” something within me). I thoroughly disenjoyed both experiences, I felt like a fraud the entire time and just could not enjoy myself. Despite being, I suspect, a terrible date, both women pretty bluntly offered sex to me. I declined both times, being actively repulsed by the idea. I don’t think there’s any way I could be with the woman I am with now or anyone else if they were not OK with me being “asexual”.

To most of the world, I try to avoid sex talk at all costs. It makes me exceedingly uncomfortable, because my defenses are exceedingly thick and sensitive. My partner is the only person I’ve explicitly expressed asexuality to, and the only person I ever entertained even the faintest possibility of being genuinely “out” with (Though I must elaborate, this possibility in my mind is currently vanishingly small). Honestly I am pretty quiet and tend not to over share (Ha, excluding this post) and it’s pretty amazing how little sex comes up if you’re not actively seeking out conversation about it.


What Am I Looking To Get Out Of Therapy?


I am mostly looking to get treatment for severe and worsening depression. I have tried therapy in the past, but have not done particularly well with it. Previously, I thought that I could omit my zoophilia from the discussion, but as time has gone on I’ve started to feel isolated. It’s not just the isolation of being a zoophile, but the fact that I’ve felt I can’t discuss it. I also suspect it's exclusion hinders progress on other issues. Every person is an extremely complex venn diagram of separate but overlapping aspects, and while I do not necessarily view my zoophilia as a problem that needs “fixing” (I also think it’s deeply ingrained enough within me as to not be “curable”, as conversion therapy for gay men does not work either) I now understand that it overlaps with and impacts with other aspects of myself. By omitting this portion of the picture, I don’t think I can paint an honest picture of who I am to a therapist. I also feel I am subconsciously tweaking communication of other issues to conceal my zoophilia.

I should also further expand on why I insist on seeing a therapist who has prior experience with zoophilia. It’s not that zoophilia is my primary concern, or again, that I necessarily want to be “cured”. I am indescribably self conscious about and concerned with exposing my zoophilia to anyone. I have thought about talking to someone about this for decades, but the thought of someone’s negative reaction to me is torturesome. I have been internally beating myself up pretty much daily for over 20 years now, and I am afraid that if a person I reach out to even acts SURPRISED, I would probably collapse into complete isolation and probably suicide. I cannot be the first encounter of a zoophile this therapist has seen, I just cannot do it. My thoughts about myself are so negative that I am going to inflate anyone else’s reaction 10 thousand fold and turn it back onto myself, so if it’s negative it could come back as potentially lethal to me. Yes, I am absolutely that afraid.

Further, I want to think aloud as to the pros and cons of seeing a therapist who is a zoophile as opposed to seeing a therapist who is familiar with zoophiles. The former seems like the “safest” option, and it would be nice to be thoroughly understood for once. However, I know that the chances of finding this are pretty slim, and that if I can find a zoo therapist I would likely be “stuck” with them. I’ve had good and bad therapists before, but if I get a bad zoo therapist it’s not like I have a whole rolodex to move on to from there. The other thing is probably the bias, which could cut both positive and negative. I’m genuinely unsure which way it would slant. The latter omits bias pretty well, but I’m extremely skeptical of the level of empathy non-zoos have towards zoophiles. Not that I think they’d necessarily be overtly hostile, but I think it would be difficult to explain how strong some of my feelings are if they come up. I’m also, again, not sure I’m looking to “cure” my zoophilia, and I suspect non-zoos would either consciously or unconsciously tend to steer things in that way. I’m not sure if this would be positive or negative, but I’d consider it a different kind of bias I suppose.


Conclusions And Final Statements


So, I suppose that’s all for now. If you read the whole thing I want to sincerely thank you for taking the time to understand where I’m coming from very thoroughly. If you stumbled on this looking for answers for yourself I hope it has brought something of value to you, if only confirmation that there are other people out there trying to figure things out. If you think you can help with my initial request, please check in if and when I can get the ability to PM and reach out, I’d be forever grateful. I’ll post when I get that figured out for sure.

I’d also just like to be clear, I don’t think I’m looking for meetups or lots of back and forth conversation. If you’d like to ask a question or attempt chit chat I certainly won’t stop you, but please forgive me if I’m not Mr. Social Butterfly over here. It’s nothing against anyone here, I am just extremely shy and I’m not sure I’m ready to be particularly open beyond basic niceties. I know this is selfish of me, to close myself off in this way even as I ask for help, but I am in such a fragile state right now I need to stay in my cocoon, at least for a little bit. This may change in the future, and I will try to post if I need to in order to PM, but I think it is what it is for now. Thank you very much for being understanding. Any grace or mercy that folks can offer to me right now is hitting like a warm embrace and I really appreciate it.

 

[BrotatoChip]

Well, for what it's worth, I made it to 10 posts. Huzzah for me. I suspect I can PM now. I hope something I posted was helpful to someone in some fashion. It is helpful to have some space to talk, even if it is currently virtual.

If anyone can offer assistance I would be eternally grateful. I suspect I'm harshing people's vibes here and I'm really sorry but goddamn I'm in a bad spot.

 

[BrotatoChip]

Sorry to bump this again, but I can't edit my other posts. Posting the above was really desperate and crazy, but goddamn was it helpful as an exercise. If anyone actually read it, let me say both I'm sorry and thank you lol. I think I have found a line on a therapist and I'm really, really excited. The relief of even getting this far has pulled me so far away from the brink already it's mind boggling. I'm intoxicated on genuine hope which I haven't had in at least 10 years, probably longer.

That'll be the last from me in this thread unless anyone responds, apologies for babbling to myself in here.

Again, a general thanks to everyone that is here just for being here and being active. I've been bouncing around reading a bunch of stuff and I'm finding a lot that has been helpful even just to read.

 

[justwannawatchporn]

I think no one's replying because it sounded so government.

 

[btdc69]

As far as finding a therapist is concerned, I can't really help you there unfortunately. I can relate with you in that therapy is something that I most definitely need for a handful of reasons but is currently out of reach. My circumstances are different from yours, but needless to say that I can relate on some level and empathize with the desire to seek professional help. It does sound like you found a lead on that front, so I hope it goes well for you.

Speaking on a more general level though, I think it's more complicated than having a good therapist, one who can understand your zoophilia and perhaps is zoo themselves. You've clearly severely isolated yourself from others. While a therapist can obviously help with that, I do believe their ability to do so can only go so far. It's easier said than done when you are an introverted person, feeling like an outcast, or just being completely unable to relate to people around you. That's a feeling I know all too well, as I grew up a severely atypical introvert myself.

While I think a lot of us have that innate fear of being "caught" or judged, it's clear you are more self conscious than most. Agonizing for decades about wanting to reach out, but being terrified of doing so, while also feeling miserable because of the isolation is a truly nasty mixture.

I’m also, again, not sure I’m looking to “cure” my zoophilia, and I suspect non-zoos would either consciously or unconsciously tend to steer things in that way.

I'm going to preface what I'm about to say with a disclaimer that I am not a therapist. I'm not particularly educated or professional by any means, so please take what I'm going to say with a grain of salt.

In the psychology world, there is a separation between "zoophilia" and "bestiality". Zoophilia is considered a paraphilia, and in case you aren't aware, paraphilia is a categorization of atypical sexual attractions that can range from unusual to dangerous. This unfortunately puts it in the same category as pedophilia, which is also considered a paraphilia (this being one reason many anti-zoos draw parallels between the two). That sounds awful, because as zoos we know that the comparison to pedophilia is absolutely ridiculous and a grave insult to those of us who truly love and respect our animal companions. But there is a difference between having the thoughts/desires, and then acting on them. Treatments for paraphilias often include things like cognitive behaviorial therapy and sometimes medication. Though if you aren't looking to try to get "cured", this is obviously not an ideal outcome or "treatment" at all. This is obviously why your ideal therapist would be one who is either a zoo themselves, or at least supportive.

It sounds like you haven't had much physical experience with animals, and having the thoughts and desires on their own should not elicit a violently negative reaction from a therapist, and honestly a brief physical interaction shouldn't either. It's clear that this brings you great distress, that much is clearly visible even through text alone.

A therapist who is worthy of their profession shouldn't make you feel even worse about your mental health, as that goes against the core philosophy of the field. Zoophilia isn't exactly a foreign concept in the mental health space, there are various diagnoses such as ZOCD that people do actually get diagnosed with in addition to traditional zoophilia. Unfortunately there are bad therapists out there, and especially if you intend to talk about a particularly taboo topic that can be extremely nerve-wracking. One reason I didn't pursue becoming a psychologist/therapist myself was because I realized that I myself had too many issues, and as I got older it got worse and worse. I'm slowly on the "up", but I have still have a lot of my worst inner demons that I still need to conquer, and ironically my zoophilia actually has nothing to do with that these days (though it was a problem for me for a long time, as were other things). But sometimes I wish it did because the demons I harbor are insanely ugly. Lol

You say you "aren't sure" you're looking for a cure, which implies to me that on some level you do still struggle to accept your own sexuality. To that end I believe it's worth doing some introspection and following the trails to see where they lead you. You're terrified of how other people would react to your sexual attraction, is that because you yourself are still struggling to accept it? Does your attraction cause you distress, and does this motivate your desire to seek professional help for it? Is it possible your isolation stems from shame rather than fear? This is kind of way that I'll try to figure myself out, by asking myself questions and following the chain of thoughts it sends me on. I have a very hard time processing my emotions, and I often need direct prompts and a lot of time to actually figure myself out.

I'm not the most social person either (though my post history would claim otherwise, as I tend to be verbose in these spaces), but it sounds like you have isolated yourself to such a degree that it has cascaded out of control. I think capitalizing on the anonymity this space offers could help you to come out of your shell a bit, to talk to people without taking any direct risk and maybe help you figure yourself out.

I don't want to ramble on too much as I don't want to provide too much unsolicited advice or unwanted opinions, so I think I'll leave it at that. The reality of zoophilia is that everyone's journey is different, and a lot of zoophiles tend to have a pretty rough time in figuring themselves out and accepting themselves, myself included. It's made harder due to the fact that this is a subject that many people feel too scared to bring up to anyone in their personal lives, and there is absolutely a valid reason for that. Therapists in the majority of situations are going to view your zoophilia as a problem to be fixed rather than something to accept about yourself; even if they aren't outright judging you, there is still an expectation that you need help to control those "urges". That's one reason I really value zoo-centric spaces such as these, and I can understand why you'd want to find a therapist that may be a zoophile themselves. But I think giving yourself an avenue to communicate with others like you is ultimately going to be more important for your growth than cherry picking a single therapist and hoping for the best. It's never good to live in full isolation, humans are social creatures by nature.

Just know that you aren't alone in your struggles. You've spent your entire life up until this point carrying that burden on your own, and nobody is truly capable of carrying all of their burdens alone. Not without it drastically altering their mental state in one form or another, at least. Especially people like us, where we often feel terrified to talk about one of the most intimate and important aspects of ourselves and our happiness.

I'm not exactly sure if I've said anything worthwhile in all of this mess, but hopefully it was at least some food for thought. I hope your time here brings you comfort.

 

[BrotatoChip]

Oh shiiiiiiiiiit, walls of text! My favorite!

As far as finding a therapist is concerned, I can't really help you there unfortunately. I can relate with you in that therapy is something that I most definitely need for a handful of reasons but is currently out of reach. My circumstances are different from yours, but needless to say that I can relate on some level and empathize with the desire to seek professional help. It does sound like you found a lead on that front, so I hope it goes well for you.

Speaking on a more general level though, I think it's more complicated than having a good therapist, one who can understand your zoophilia and perhaps is zoo themselves. You've clearly severely isolated yourself from others. While a therapist can obviously help with that, I do believe their ability to do so can only go so far. It's easier said than done when you are an introverted person, feeling like an outcast, or just being completely unable to relate to people around you. That's a feeling I know all too well, as I grew up a severely atypical introvert myself.

Oh my god yeah, I definitely know it's not all about having a "good" therapist. I have no idea if I've had good or bad therapists up until now, but I do know I've been a really shitty patient. I'm actually really, really glad I did not find a zoo therapist, because I think "outing" myself in the way that I feared is going to be huge. I mean, I had planned to rip n dip with my first post basically, but once I posted it I felt so immediately better I started posting and talking to all kinds of people and I feel like I've been able to just cast off tons of baggage really, really rapidly.

Do I regret collapsing into myself for 20 years? I mean, yes, of course I do. But GODDAMN once I started talking to people I feel like all of the shit I've been mulling over, all of the reflection and thought, all of it has started to click into something really meaningful in like, a week. Like I'd been building up all of these raw materials but I couldn't turn them into something useful, and they were a burden rather than a resource. Now that I've talked to people, and as I talk to people, I feel like I have tools and blueprints and I'm using all of the supplies finally. Some of them I don't need, but I can deal with those and clean them up once I've figured out what I'm building here.

While I think a lot of us have that innate fear of being "caught" or judged, it's clear you are more self conscious than most. Agonizing for decades about wanting to reach out, but being terrified of doing so, while also feeling miserable because of the isolation is a truly nasty mixture.

Oh man yes. I suspect I know where some of this fear is coming from, and I think I have an idea of how to mend the wound some, but I'm not certain. I think you understand why I want therapy.

You say you "aren't sure" you're looking for a cure, which implies to me that on some level you do still struggle to accept your own sexuality. To that end I believe it's worth doing some introspection and following the trails to see where they lead you. You're terrified of how other people would react to your sexual attraction, is that because you yourself are still struggling to accept it? Does your attraction cause you distress, and does this motivate your desire to seek professional help for it? Is it possible your isolation stems from shame rather than fear? This is kind of way that I'll try to figure myself out, by asking myself questions and following the chain of thoughts it sends me on. I have a very hard time processing my emotions, and I often need direct prompts and a lot of time to actually figure myself out.

Yeah, I'm not sure. There's a lot to unpack really. I don't think I feel bad about the idea of the interaction with animals, and the thought of being with an animal is not disgusting to me in any way, so I don't suspect it's ZOCD, at least from my understanding. I don't think I want a cure because, I don't know, somehow the attraction feels... right? Like, a piece of shrapnel would be a wound, with foreign material that needs to be removed. This feels like... I dunno, my femur, and man do I like having femurs. I guess not even that I actively like having femurs, it's just, they're there and they should be and I feel pretty firmly about that. I don't know if that makes it "right" in a larger sense, but it feels right to me.

Pretty much all of my fear is from other people's reaction, judgements, etc. This is primarily what I want therapy for I think. I want to have some sense of self confidence. That's also a worry of mine though. I want to hit the right balance of self confidence and humility. I think the world is fucking DESTROYING itself because people have no humility, no compassion, and such an overinflated sense of self worth. I feel so, so sad for some of these people. I can see their delusions crippling them sometimes, and they're not aware. I know I'm fucked up. It seems better than being fucked up and not knowing it. If you don't think you're flawed how can you improve yourself? That seems like a nightmare to me, I don't know.

I'm a little scared to be here sometimes because I see people that seemingly have no shame, and I don't want to be that. I don't want to think I'm right and good, I want to KNOW I'm right and good. I'm not currently, but I want to be. I might drive myself mad because knowing might not be possible, and I have to just... get calibrated so I can hit a point where I have appropriate confidence.

I'm not the most social person either (though my post history would claim otherwise, as I tend to be verbose in these spaces), but it sounds like you have isolated yourself to such a degree that it has cascaded out of control. I think capitalizing on the anonymity this space offers could help you to come out of your shell a bit, to talk to people without taking any direct risk and maybe help you figure yourself out.

Yes, I've been doing this a whole bunch. It has been EXCEEDINGLY helpful talking to people. People reaching out directly has been so, so helpful and I really, desperately needed it. I'm trying to post where I can and not get myself down.

I get serious 4chan vibes here which is a good and a bad thing. I used to hang out there like 15 years ago or so and sometimes I think it wired my brain wrong, but I like the kind of unfiltered mix of folks here and I think that's why I'm reminded. There's positive and there's negative folks and I think there's value in the blend.

Just know that you aren't alone in your struggles. You've spent your entire life up until this point carrying that burden on your own, and nobody is truly capable of carrying all of their burdens alone. Not without it drastically altering their mental state in one form or another, at least. Especially people like us, where we often feel terrified to talk about one of the most intimate and important aspects of ourselves and our happiness.

I'm not exactly sure if I've said anything worthwhile in all of this mess, but hopefully it was at least some food for thought. I hope your time here brings you comfort.

Oh man, no, this was so worthwhile. Thank you so very very much for reading all or at least some of what I wrote, I know it's a lot but it's nice to be seen and heard. Thank you also for taking the time to write a thoughtful response, it really does mean the world to me, both the words and the sentiment. Having wasted tons of it, I know time is extremely valuable, so I really genuinely appreciate you spending some of yours on me. Thank you.

 

[offgridk9lover2]

Other people are like a debug program, they can spot your blind spots and show them. The truth will set you free, but first it will really piss you off! and some are just idiots, so all ways take it with some salt, but even in a septic tank some times you can find gold, the pain of the effort makes the fruits all the sweeter, so there is merit in the endevour.

This is what this forum is, and why many forums are of great help, I am skilled at designing very tuff off grid power systems, yet I know I will miss simple things or very important things, having some one I trust double check catches those, same with in the lab, we can not see what we do not even know we're missing.

So Seems like you are indeed a zoo, when I was the single digits I knew I was not like the rest, it just became more clear and how as I got older. Sounds like you had some out side forces discouraging that sort of self reflection. As advised here is a great place to fix that, you don't need some over paid head shrink to play what ifs with you, you simply need a sound board to throw ideas at and see how they bounce back and relate to you.

Bears, great choice, very sexy, for example! Open your mind, like why not make love to a lovely bear female while a male bear on top! you don't have to be one or the other, being both is an option!

Start simple, what IS "you" for example I am a fixer, I fix things, and build them.

What does you really want? I loath society in general, I want to be in a quiet place left alone to fix and build things

Do you have that? If no why not? if no then ask your self, Am I happy in the spot I am now? If no then few liters of petrol and a lighter, and a plan to get to some where different! Some times burning it all down and starting from scratch is well worth it, I'd rather be where I want to be and dirt poor, then wealthy and miserable, but that is me.

Having IRL zoo friends is a necessity, even with my general lack of interest in people I have a core group of real friends, all zoo, and remember, a real friend helps you hide the body! that is sort of how you tell a friend from acquaintance! if any of mine phoned up and said they needed me I'd drop every thing and go if able (IE car working, other wise would take a month to walk to em!!!)

Self reflection with out some external input is going to be worse in the end, our minds can implode in on them selfs and you come out worse.

Some times therapeutic to just stick the grenade in the microwave and hit the pop corn button, a bit of randomness in life keeps you on your toes, a stagnant life is a short one, yet will feel like eternity!

 

[AppleDash]

Forums like this one can be helpful for those who want to explore their zoosexual sides. With therapists, I always wonder how they would respond to any mentioning of zoosexual feelings. Some might just add it to the equation and work from there, while others (more likely) will regard the zoosexuality as the cause of everything and therefore something that needs to be "cured". Those therapists also will fail to see the difference between zoosexuals and the abusers you encounter in media reports.

The feelings of depression and being in a bad place sound familiar. I have (had - it comes and goes) my share but there's a subtlety to it. My depression and bad place feelings are not the result of being a zoosexual but of the fact I have to keep it hidden. That Damocles Sword and my neurodivergence make it difficult for me to interact with people as one whole person, as if there's always something Jekyll & Hyde going on. After all, here I can be the person I cannot be around family or when I'm at work.

From what I gather from your posts, I think it's fair to say the feelings are innate, and again it resonates. When I hit the double digits, I started thinking of mares even though I didn't grow up with them. Yet here we are. My therapy wasn't particularly helpful. Maybe it was because of the fact I ended up with an NHS-appointed therapist, maybe it was because much of the therapy isn't really neurodivergent friendly. For instance, even though I hadn't mentioned the zoosexuality (some therapists will be all too eager to alert the authorities out of concern for your welfare or that of the animals) I was told to mingle more with people and less with the horses. And actually, the reason I mingle more with horses is because I need that to recharge my battery, which is flatlining even after the limited human interaction I have here.

What helped me with my zoosexual feelings in the end was making perfectly clear what I would find acceptable or arousing, and what I would condemn. It may sound surprising but even as a zoosexual, I have my moral sphere in which I act. It might differ from mainstream society but I know at least with me animal wellbeing comes first. Perhaps considering the ZETA principles will help you there too.

Good luck and if needed you can always send me a DM.

 

[BrotatoChip]

Other people are like a debug program, they can spot your blind spots and show them. The truth will set you free, but first it will really piss you off! and some are just idiots, so all ways take it with some salt, but even in a septic tank some times you can find gold, the pain of the effort makes the fruits all the sweeter, so there is merit in the endevour.

This is what this forum is, and why many forums are of great help, I am skilled at designing very tuff off grid power systems, yet I know I will miss simple things or very important things, having some one I trust double check catches those, same with in the lab, we can not see what we do not even know we're missing.

Yeah, I hear all of this, particularly the digging for gold type mentality. I sometimes think this place is shitty, to be frank, but I think because I feel that way I know that it's good, if that makes sense. I mean, I guess at least it has some kind of twisted integrity, perhaps.

I certainly don't know what I don't know, and that's hard because I also do know a lot of stuff I don't know so sometimes I feel totally retarded.

So Seems like you are indeed a zoo, when I was the single digits I knew I was not like the rest, it just became more clear and how as I got older. Sounds like you had some out side forces discouraging that sort of self reflection. As advised here is a great place to fix that, you don't need some over paid head shrink to play what ifs with you, you simply need a sound board to throw ideas at and see how they bounce back and relate to

Thanks for saying that. I don't think I should let it, but that makes me feel good to hear you in particular say that (Sorry for the over familiarity, I just pick up some vibes from stuff I've seen you post that I'm going to let myself trust). I came here feeling really, really awful that I was a zoophile, then I got here and I felt really really bad that I might not be a zoophile because I'm not like, uh, "practicing" I guess. Sometimes I can't stop myself from feeling like a fraud no matter where I go. So yeah, I dunno, I don't want to lean on anyone's opinion in place of my own, but I'm just going to let myself be glad you said that even just to keep me going until I can be glad under my own steam.

Bears, great choice, very sexy, for example! Open your mind, like why not make love to a lovely bear female while a male bear on top! you don't have to be one or the other, being both is an option!

It's funny, I kind of skipped this when writing, but pretty much exactly that was part of the gradient of transitioning over to interest in primarily males. I think that's pretty well locked in at this point though, lol.

Do you have that? If no why not? if no then ask your self, Am I happy in the spot I am now? If no then few liters of petrol and a lighter, and a plan to get to some where different! Some times burning it all down and starting from scratch is well worth it, I'd rather be where I want to be and dirt poor, then wealthy and miserable, but that is me.

I'm not sure what I want, to be honest. I am married, and I think that I want to be. That certainly complicates things. I mean, I think that's going to get REALLY complicated pretty soon because I think I'm going to have to talk through some of this stuff and it's going to be a serious mess.

But then yeah, outside of that? I dunno. There was a time where I was like, imma run and go full hermit in the mountains just because I feel so uncomfortable around people it feels like I'm living life walking around with my skin on fire. I actually probably would be like, wandering homeless or doing something of that nature if it weren't for the fact that I have a disease that needs regular medication, that keeps me grounded a little bit. I had considered going hobo with a shotgun mode and occasionally robbing pharmacies, but that was like a weird pipe dream kind of thing.

Ultimately even if I could live "free" in a way similar to what you've got going on, I think my motivation would be different so I don't think it's the path for me, at least not yet. I think I like the IDEA of burning it all down and running away, because in my thoughts it's me in my current situation imaginging another me out there in the world and ultimately I think the idea is appealing because that me out there got away from... me. Which in reality I wouldn't. I'd still be me.

I mean, as far as dreams? Like what could I see myself being happy doing? I'd love to do something with guns. Like, large quantitites and varieties of guns. I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE guns. I love everything about them. I can literally talk about them all day every day. I WANT to talk about them all day every day. Even around gun people I have to hide my power level because I'm bursting forth with stupid factoids and thoughts and like, oh you should get this one because of this, but don't forget about that other one because it's got this. I dunno, my passion is strong enough I'd considered I may have some kind of autism, but I think it is just legitimately passion.

Having IRL zoo friends is a necessity, even with my general lack of interest in people I have a core group of real friends, all zoo, and remember, a real friend helps you hide the body! that is sort of how you tell a friend from acquaintance! if any of mine phoned up and said they needed me I'd drop every thing and go if able (IE car working, other wise would take a month to walk to em!!!)

Yeah, I'm less certain about primarily seeking out fellow zoos, but I do need to find some real community out there. I think I need to try and put myself out there at my gun club and get deeper into competition shooting. It's hard making friends as an adult, doubly so when you're a giant weirdo.

Anyways, thanks for the response and for talking to me or whatever, it's really appreciated and it means the world to me right now. I'm fucked up but I'm getting better maybe.

 

[BrotatoChip]

Forums like this one can be helpful for those who want to explore their zoosexual sides. With therapists, I always wonder how they would respond to any mentioning of zoosexual feelings. Some might just add it to the equation and work from there, while others (more likely) will regard the zoosexuality as the cause of everything and therefore something that needs to be "cured". Those therapists also will fail to see the difference between zoosexuals and the abusers you encounter in media reports.

Yeah, I'm not sure how it's going to go. At this point, I am realizing that being honest and forthcoming IS the challenge. It's not the zoophilia, it's how I'm letting it and other things dictate my actions, my presentation, and my view of myself. I really want to work on honesty and self-esteem, so even though I don't think the zoo thing is the largest portion of what I have going on (I'm going heavy on it here because, well, it's here) but it's the most extreme symbol of it and the hardest one to get out of the way so I want to talk about it so badly. Even if the therapist is shit (I think I'm smart enough to read this) I want to do it for myself. I can find another therapist later if I need to.

From what I gather from your posts, I think it's fair to say the feelings are innate, and again it resonates. When I hit the double digits, I started thinking of mares even though I didn't grow up with them. Yet here we are. My therapy wasn't particularly helpful. Maybe it was because of the fact I ended up with an NHS-appointed therapist, maybe it was because much of the therapy isn't really neurodivergent friendly. For instance, even though I hadn't mentioned the zoosexuality (some therapists will be all too eager to alert the authorities out of concern for your welfare or that of the animals) I was told to mingle more with people and less with the horses. And actually, the reason I mingle more with horses is because I need that to recharge my battery, which is flatlining even after the limited human interaction I have here.

Yeah, part of why I want to see a therapist is also because I mean, I do hope they push back at me a bit. I need to be able to stand my ground and not crumble under the judgements of others. I expect it to be uncomfortable for me, but I hope I can end up in a situation where I feel it helped me even if I didn't always agree with my therapist.

What helped me with my zoosexual feelings in the end was making perfectly clear what I would find acceptable or arousing, and what I would condemn. It may sound surprising but even as a zoosexual, I have my moral sphere in which I act. It might differ from mainstream society but I know at least with me animal wellbeing comes first. Perhaps considering the ZETA principles will help you there too.

Thank you for this, I will look it over. I think I have a pretty good clear idea of what I am OK with and what I'm not and all of that, but still I'm interested to read. That's kind of a weird thing about all of this, I don't know why I feel guilty. I've never thought about hurting a dog, coercing a dog, forcing a dog, like none of that. Not even close. Like, waaaaaaaaay not even close. I actually hadn't considered it much before I saw people talking about it. I guess I'm naïve AF, but my reaction was like, why would you do that? I dunno, it wasn't on my radar as thinking about hurting the animal. Not that I was unconcerned, just, I dunno. I think I would find it impossible to hurt an animal like that. I mean maybe it should have been more front and center in my mind so I can be more aware, but I think I was innately already in some way. My brain wouldn't have let me keep going otherwise.

Yeah, I dunno, I have to think on that one.

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate hearing your perspective and experiences. It really means a lot. I've got a billion DMs going but I may reach out at some point, so thank you for the offer. Good luck to you as well.

 

[btdc69]

Oh shiiiiiiiiiit, walls of text! My favorite!

They are my specialty, for better or worse. Lol

Oh my god yeah, I definitely know it's not all about having a "good" therapist. I have no idea if I've had good or bad therapists up until now, but I do know I've been a really shitty patient. I'm actually really, really glad I did not find a zoo therapist, because I think "outing" myself in the way that I feared is going to be huge. I mean, I had planned to rip n dip with my first post basically, but once I posted it I felt so immediately better I started posting and talking to all kinds of people and I feel like I've been able to just cast off tons of baggage really, really rapidly.

Do I regret collapsing into myself for 20 years? I mean, yes, of course I do. But GODDAMN once I started talking to people I feel like all of the shit I've been mulling over, all of the reflection and thought, all of it has started to click into something really meaningful in like, a week. Like I'd been building up all of these raw materials but I couldn't turn them into something useful, and they were a burden rather than a resource. Now that I've talked to people, and as I talk to people, I feel like I have tools and blueprints and I'm using all of the supplies finally. Some of them I don't need, but I can deal with those and clean them up once I've figured out what I'm building here.

I wouldn't be too hard on yourself. Therapists are trained to deal with very complex problems. Whether or not they do their job very well is up in the air of course. In my mind, a "shitty patient" is someone who just isn't ready for therapy. And that doesn't even make them a shitty patient, that just means they have a bit more growth to do before they are ready to take the next step.

Being able to get things off your chest in a space where you don't necessarily have to fear judgment is extremely beneficial. Even the most introverted/asocial of us have to have outlets, that's an unavoidable fact of being human. I'm happy to hear that it has already had an immediate positive effect.

Oh man yes. I suspect I know where some of this fear is coming from, and I think I have an idea of how to mend the wound some, but I'm not certain. I think you understand why I want therapy.

I can completely understand why you'd want therapy, for sure. We're not entirely capable of always solving our own problems, and sometimes you do need an outsider's perspective. I also believe there is value in talking to people you don't necessarily have much of a connection with, as it's often easier to talk about certain topics to someone who you don't have to fear judgment from.

I can't speak for you, but at least for me, a large part in dealing with my fears was coming to a larger realization that nobody's perfect. Everyone has their dirty laundry, everyone has secrets they don't want to get out. Nobody is innocent, everyone has done or thought something that someone, somewhere would consider problematic. You can never please anyone, and sometimes people will just dislike you for no real reason. With the internet being as massive as it is now, you're always going to find someone who dislikes you because of one of a million different things. The social climate these days is plagued with people who are obsessed with their virtual image, virtue signaling left right and center because putting on a facade for society is more important than being real.

Not only that, but people have plenty of reasons to dislike me beyond the fact that I'm a zoophile. Lol

Yeah, I'm not sure. There's a lot to unpack really. I don't think I feel bad about the idea of the interaction with animals, and the thought of being with an animal is not disgusting to me in any way, so I don't suspect it's ZOCD, at least from my understanding. I don't think I want a cure because, I don't know, somehow the attraction feels... right? Like, a piece of shrapnel would be a wound, with foreign material that needs to be removed. This feels like... I dunno, my femur, and man do I like having femurs. I guess not even that I actively like having femurs, it's just, they're there and they should be and I feel pretty firmly about that. I don't know if that makes it "right" in a larger sense, but it feels right to me.

My intention wasn't to suggest you had ZOCD because I don't think that's the case at all, but rather to provide an example on some ways that the psychology world views zoophilia as a concept. It's not a black and white issue, which goes for the human mind in general really.

I think drawing your own conclusions based on your own morality is more important than following whatever anyone else wants you to believe is right or wrong. If you know that you aren't mistreating your animals, and you both enjoy the intimacy you have with one another, and you caring for them to the utmost of your ability, then there is objectively nothing wrong with that at all. I know that whenever I'm able to share my life with a canine companion, I'm going to give them the best life I possibly can. I don't need anyone's approval for that.

I don't think a "cure" is really possible, at least for people like us. My attraction has entirely shaped who I am as a person, the communities I got involved with, the people I've met, and I wouldn't want to sacrifice any of that just so that I could be "normal". My sexuality towards humans is arguably more complicated than my sexuality towards animals, so even if I wasn't a zoophile I'd still be an oddball. I wouldn't be who I am today if I wasn't a zoophile, and I have no idea how I would have turned out in a universe where I wasn't.

Pretty much all of my fear is from other people's reaction, judgements, etc. This is primarily what I want therapy for I think. I want to have some sense of self confidence. That's also a worry of mine though. I want to hit the right balance of self confidence and humility. I think the world is fucking DESTROYING itself because people have no humility, no compassion, and such an overinflated sense of self worth. I feel so, so sad for some of these people. I can see their delusions crippling them sometimes, and they're not aware. I know I'm fucked up. It seems better than being fucked up and not knowing it. If you don't think you're flawed how can you improve yourself? That seems like a nightmare to me, I don't know.

Oh absolutely, society is fucking terrible. The older I get the more I begin to notice these sorts of things around me and it just makes me sad. I feel like I see more and more of it as time goes on, and maybe I'm just becoming more sensitive to things. But as I get older I slowly start to detach more and more from "society" or caring about what other people think. I'm mostly content to live in my bubble and do my thing.

Again, while I do think therapy can absolutely help you deal with those kinds of fears and insecurities, I think exposure and perspective are just as important. Confidence comes from within. I wouldn't exactly say I'm brimming with it, but "fake it til you make it" is my motto when it comes to confidence. You have to start from somewhere, and in my case I had started in the negatives. But I was slowly able to build up my confidence, and that was largely thanks to interactions I'd have with people. You do need to put yourself out there in order to become more confident around others. If you are conscious about retaining humility, I don't think you're at much risk of losing it. Adversity builds character, and while going through rough times is far from ideal, it is those experiences that truly test us and shape us into who we become. It's important to never forget your roots and to be open minded, and self reflection really goes a long way.

I'm a little scared to be here sometimes because I see people that seemingly have no shame, and I don't want to be that. I don't want to think I'm right and good, I want to KNOW I'm right and good. I'm not currently, but I want to be. I might drive myself mad because knowing might not be possible, and I have to just... get calibrated so I can hit a point where I have appropriate confidence.

I probably ought not to say this as it's gonna ruffle some feathers, but yeah, that's ZV for you. Lol

I'm sure it didn't take you very long to notice that there is definitely a certain kind of user here and they make up the vast majority of the userbase. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, people can do what they want. The benefit of this is that you get to see people from many different walks of life, who have different perspectives, and I do believe there is value in that.

As you spend more time here and get to know more people you will feel more comfortable, because this is still a pretty new experience for you.

Yes, I've been doing this a whole bunch. It has been EXCEEDINGLY helpful talking to people. People reaching out directly has been so, so helpful and I really, desperately needed it. I'm trying to post where I can and not get myself down.

I get serious 4chan vibes here which is a good and a bad thing. I used to hang out there like 15 years ago or so and sometimes I think it wired my brain wrong, but I like the kind of unfiltered mix of folks here and I think that's why I'm reminded. There's positive and there's negative folks and I think there's value in the blend.

Oops I just realized I mirrored what you said here but I'm reading this as I'm going along. My b. At least we seem to be on the same page. Lol

ZV was the first zoo space I joined about ~6 years ago now I think, and it was definitely an overall net positive for me. I don't really go out of my way to talk to people one-on-one as that's not necessarily why I joined, but there have been a handful of people that I've had private converastions with and eventually moved off-site with them. I grew up on forums as a kid, they were my only real social outlet in my youth. There is a certain nostalgia/charm/comfort in blabbering away when I feel like it. I'm not really good at direct conversations but I'm fantastic at writing my brains off in threads.

There's definitely positives and negatives, but you can't really expect to mesh with everyone. Being able to remain cordial and tolerate/get along with other people even if you may not see eye to eye is a trait that is largely lost in people these days.

Oh man, no, this was so worthwhile. Thank you so very very much for reading all or at least some of what I wrote, I know it's a lot but it's nice to be seen and heard. Thank you also for taking the time to write a thoughtful response, it really does mean the world to me, both the words and the sentiment. Having wasted tons of it, I know time is extremely valuable, so I really genuinely appreciate you spending some of yours on me. Thank you.

As someone who writes a metric fuckton, I'm willing to read a metric fuckton. Lol

I try to practice some restraint, so while I did read everything you wrote I decided to focus on some key points. There are people much more qualified than I to speak on these sorts of matters.

 

[BrotatoChip]

Oh absolutely, society is fucking terrible. The older I get the more I begin to notice these sorts of things around me and it just makes me sad. I feel like I see more and more of it as time goes on, and maybe I'm just becoming more sensitive to things. But as I get older I slowly start to detach more and more from "society" or caring about what other people think. I'm mostly content to live in my bubble and do my thing.

Yeah, I hear you. I mean, I go back to a well of deep philosophical knowledge in Men In Black and think, "A person is smart, people are stupid...". I think that sentiment is why I don't necessarily want to allow myself to detach from society. I mean, it's exceedingly tempting, but I think my gut knows it's because it would be easier for me rather than maybe better for me or people I know.

I know everything is kind of fucked, but I know so much of it is that people are sad, whether they know it or not. My stepdad kind of went off the deep end politically at some point and became outwardly a much worse person. But, I know that he has more character than any of the other people in my life in that he didn't abandon me, he didn't hurt me, and dare I say I learned a lot from him. I know he's super flawed, but I know he's not the happiest person and I know he's ultimately good. I just want him to be able to be happy and break out of whatever's got him down and is making him act nuts.

I just feel like there's a lot of outwardly shitty people that are shitty in a way where they reject help from everyone, but I don't know... I just don't like to know that there's good people trapped in some of those shitty people. I mean, I think I'm often shitty but I think there's someone good in me. I don't know that there's anything I can do for everyone else, but I dunno. Disengaging entirely cuts off the possibility and it feels like a loss somehow. My heart aches for the world in an impotent and unsatisfying way sometimes, it's hard to put a finger on it.

Anyways, yeah, everything you've said about therapy I think makes some kind of sense to me, so thanks for taking the time to write it out. I'm like, really fired up for therapy in a way that I don't think I have been before so I'm at a good spot I think. I hope the wait isn't too terribly long but I'm going to just try and get my mental ducks in a row a bit more in the preceding window I think.

 

[btdc69]

Yeah, I hear you. I mean, I go back to a well of deep philosophical knowledge in Men In Black and think, "A person is smart, people are stupid...". I think that sentiment is why I don't necessarily want to allow myself to detach from society. I mean, it's exceedingly tempting, but I think my gut knows it's because it would be easier for me rather than maybe better for me or people I know.

I don't think detaching to the extent of becoming a hermit is suitable for most. It's more about not letting mass opinion/belief prevent you from being yourself. You have to follow your heart, use your own discernment. It's not a good thing to shut yourself off from others, or to refuse advice/opinions from people who may see things differently, even if you disagree or don't take their advice. One of the biggest issues in our society right now is how intolerant people are of those who differ from them, and this is something people on all sides are guilty of. The key is to curate who has input that brings value or productive discussion.

I know everything is kind of fucked, but I know so much of it is that people are sad, whether they know it or not. My stepdad kind of went off the deep end politically at some point and became outwardly a much worse person. But, I know that he has more character than any of the other people in my life in that he didn't abandon me, he didn't hurt me, and dare I say I learned a lot from him. I know he's super flawed, but I know he's not the happiest person and I know he's ultimately good. I just want him to be able to be happy and break out of whatever's got him down and is making him act nuts.

I just feel like there's a lot of outwardly shitty people that are shitty in a way where they reject help from everyone, but I don't know... I just don't like to know that there's good people trapped in some of those shitty people. I mean, I think I'm often shitty but I think there's someone good in me. I don't know that there's anything I can do for everyone else, but I dunno. Disengaging entirely cuts off the possibility and it feels like a loss somehow. My heart aches for the world in an impotent and unsatisfying way sometimes, it's hard to put a finger on it.

There are a lot of outwardly shitty people. There are a lot of inherently good people who are misguided, too. Labeling people as either "good" or "bad" eradicates all of the nuance and complexities of the human condition. Good people can do bad things, or can evolve to adopt "bad" beliefs, and vice versa. Sure, there are exceptions, but even then if you are willing to look deep enough you can understand what turns people into the monsters they may be. Many people wouldn't care to understand such things, though these are the kinds of topics I find fascinating because I like to know why people are the way they are. Sometimes it's enlightening, other times it is just pathetic and sad, if not outright bizarre. I find that it provides a lot of perspective.

I believe in most cases it stems from ignorance and a general lack of empathy for people they refuse to try to understand. The reality is that most people learn through their own experiences and can't relate or understand people on the other side of the coin without experiencing what they have. Pretty much my entire family are outwardly shitty people. There are some who had potential to be better. But any progress they were making got sent flying backwards and into the other direction back in 2020 when it all went to shit. I think the pandemic caused a lot of damage to society as a whole. The way social media has changed since then really brings that to light for me.

Anyways, yeah, everything you've said about therapy I think makes some kind of sense to me, so thanks for taking the time to write it out. I'm like, really fired up for therapy in a way that I don't think I have been before so I'm at a good spot I think. I hope the wait isn't too terribly long but I'm going to just try and get my mental ducks in a row a bit more in the preceding window I think.

I'm glad you found some kind of value in it. Hope everything works out well for you.