why, how and when sex with animals started to be taboo?

LuvelyLeda said:
Ya, totally agree. I think people in history have always thought of animals as dirty and humans as clean. It's kinda true tho, cuz what animals usually think of as "clean" is dirty to us.
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Most of our stuff is just hold overs from before modern tech and medicine and our culture just hasn’t caught up. Give it a few years and I wouldn’t be surprised to see at least zoophilia decriminalized in some more places. Hell in some spaces already it’s starting to be accepting. The only issue is how people view consent. I feel like we will have to have more widely known scientific studies on animal psychology for people not to always view it as rape. The problem there too is those understandings only reinforce the disgust people feel towards zoophilia. So it’s definitely an uphill battle.
 
K_9River_rat said:
That's a difficult jump. We weren't around then, we have no clue as to how well day to day life was recorded. It's entirely possible that it was viewed as normal and no records exist.

We can only speculate as to what was and wasn't normal.

We cannot and will never be able to prove one way or the other, and without lack of proof one way or the other, anything that we cannot disprove must be left on the table as being possible.
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From what I've heard, it was illegal to have sex with animals in ancient Egypt, but apparently that law was regularly broken, and people were doing it, anyway. There was probably always some taboo around it, in most places, but not all cultures cared about it to the same degree.
 
KnottyNomad said:
Most of our stuff is just hold overs from before modern tech and medicine and our culture just hasn’t caught up. Give it a few years and I wouldn’t be surprised to see at least zoophilia decriminalized in some more places. Hell in some spaces already it’s starting to be accepting. The only issue is how people view consent. I feel like we will have to have more widely known scientific studies on animal psychology for people not to always view it as rape. The problem there too is those understandings only reinforce the disgust people feel towards zoophilia. So it’s definitely an uphill battle.
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I don't know if scientific studies will help much. A lot of the problem is that most people do not attribute agency to animals, for a variety of reasons, but in the case of zoophilia, it's strictly because they don't want to humor the discussion. Saying animals can't consent is an easy out, even though any amount of critical thinking would lead to the conclusion that animals literally can consent. It's how more animals get made.
 
moonstruckxiii said:
I don't know if scientific studies will help much. A lot of the problem is that most people do not attribute agency to animals, for a variety of reasons, but in the case of zoophilia, it's strictly because they don't want to humor the discussion. Saying animals can't consent is an easy out, even though any amount of critical thinking would lead to the conclusion that animals literally can consent. It's how more animals get made.
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Yea you are right unfortunately I more meant that it might be able to convince some people who are either on the fence or aren’t outright disgusted. But honestly I’m not sure what it will actually take for people to accept zoophilia. Though for a long time I’m sure people thought there was no way homosexuality would ever be accepted so maybe there is hope.
 
KnottyNomad said:
Yea you are right unfortunately I more meant that it might be able to convince some people who are either on the fence or aren’t outright disgusted. But honestly I’m not sure what it will actually take for people to accept zoophilia. Though for a long time I’m sure people thought there was no way homosexuality would ever be accepted so maybe there is hope.
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I think there's some hope, too, but it's complicated, for sure. Politically-speaking, a lot of people on the right are doubling down on "judeo-christian values", and a lot of people on the left are determined to make basically everything "problematic" including things like a 4 year age gap. I think the actual first step would be to simply push back against people with puritcanical attitudes about everything, in general. A major problem is that people are WAY too comfortable not minding their own business.
 
If Kinsey is to be believed, bestiality was pretty common in rural populations, at least with young men. They just considered it something that happens. Urban populations considered it a perversion, but that didn't stop young city guys from partaking when they visited the countryside and had a chance. I think that in the 40s it wasn't such a big deal with some people, since I've heard mentions here and there about soldiers and sailors getting dogs to keep their wives from straying while they were deployed. (Maybe those guys were from the country?) By the 60s, bestiality was closer to normalization, legalized in various states and countries. I remember from the 80s that it was just another kink. By now, almost everything else is normalized. Maybe people need someone to look down on?
 
Many of the stories from ancient Greece are cautionary tales against violating a taboo: such as mating outside one's species. They thought it could produce offspring who would be monsters.
There are societies today where it is normal for a guy to fuck a jenny.

It all seems random.
 
K_9River_rat said:
That's a difficult jump. We weren't around then, we have no clue as to how well day to day life was recorded. It's entirely possible that it was viewed as normal and no records exist.

We can only speculate as to what was and wasn't normal.

We cannot and will never be able to prove one way or the other, and without lack of proof one way or the other, anything that we cannot disprove must be left on the table as being possible.
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There are records, in Babylonian Law...Hammurabi's Code mentions the crimes and punishments. Assyrian Law makes some actions forbidden and others not....circumstances vary.
 
saddlebum66 said:
There are records, in Babylonian Law...Hammurabi's Code mentions the crimes and punishments. Assyrian Law makes some actions forbidden and others not....circumstances vary.
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True, but all of that is still very modern when the whole of human existence is taken into consideration...

The fact is that we have more unknown history than we have recorded history.
 
K_9River_rat said:
True, but all of that is still very modern when the whole of human existence is taken into consideration...

The fact is that we have more unknown history than we have recorded history.
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Modern it may be, but if you were to find the "unrecorded" History it would not likely be very different.

The psychology that led to such laws in Hammurabi's day, and the legal thinking that came with it was "Codified", not "Created".

The Human condition does not spring full grown from a single thing, place or time, as Athena from the forehead of Zeus.

The answer to the question asked may be surmised and speculated about, but it is an unknown, and will remain so.

There really is no reason to even think that further research in paleo-humanities will detail anything of great importance on the topic.

It is highly subject to interpretation, and the researchers aren't looking for it.
 
Society likes creating barriers between beings who are different. If people understood animals who are as equal as people it would be less profitable for those looking to exploit that. Plus the human ego of the all powerful "consent" which doesn't really exist in human terms. It's mainly gatekeeping.

Considering the fact of animal husbandry as well as endless research of mating rituals. You would think people will get that down pat. That is mostly why/how it is taboo. HOWEVER I do not know the WHEN.

Long story short: humans make excuses to justify atrocities. There's a reason why our ancestors are the war driven chimpanzees.
 
K_9River_rat said:
True, but all of that is still very modern when the whole of human existence is taken into consideration...

The fact is that we have more unknown history than we have recorded history.
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There are a few cave paintings that kinda make you wonder. There's some ancient artwork, including temple engravings, that leave no doubt at all. But that's the closest we have for sure until there were written records. I figure that those old myths about deities turning into animals and impregnating women was from back in the days when we didn't understand exactly how reproduction works. Maybe they thought that a child could have multiple fathers, including spirits and animals. It's possible that bestiality was encouraged, for instance as a way for a baby to inherit a wolf's strength and speed. As for the wolves, maybe they started hanging around with human tribes for more than just table scraps!! That much is speculative, of course, but I don't think this goes too far out on a limb. From what I've heard, the ancient Egyptians enjoyed bestiality quite a bit, and sort of had an "anything goes" attitude about sex.
 
labsareawesome said:
There are a few cave paintings that kinda make you wonder. There's some ancient artwork, including temple engravings, that leave no doubt at all. But that's the closest we have for sure until there were written records. I figure that those old myths about deities turning into animals and impregnating women was from back in the days when we didn't understand exactly how reproduction works. Maybe they thought that a child could have multiple fathers, including spirits and animals. It's possible that bestiality was encouraged, for instance as a way for a baby to inherit a wolf's strength and speed. As for the wolves, maybe they started hanging around with human tribes for more than just table scraps!! That much is speculative, of course, but I don't think this goes too far out on a limb. From what I've heard, the ancient Egyptians enjoyed bestiality quite a bit, and sort of had an "anything goes" attitude about sex.
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Of course it's just a guess because the fact is that nobody really knows for sure, but I tend to think that it was quite normal or widespread at some point in time, and likely became more taboo when we had a rabies outbreak and people not knowing what rabies was, decided it must be a sign from the gods when someone died after contact with a rabid dog or wolf..

I'd imagine there's a stage of rabies where the disease is communicable but hasn't affected the animal to the point of foaming at the mouth..

But agaIn... all speculation...
 
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