Zoophilia in history

[canecorso]

At what point is the cartoon bit you described?

Almost at the end.

 

[Pillar]

I believe it was done from people of all different period of times and cultures but after the spread of abrahamic religions it was an big sin to do and the people stick to that till the strict church rule of the middle ages had fallen.

I'm sure they still did it behind closed doors.

 

[saddlebum66]

I'm going to be critical and this might disappoint some people here but...to the best of my film knowledge, that French video is not from that era, it was just filmed to look that way. The "silent era" was just that, silent. Any music that accompanied the films was actually piped in by a pianist playing the music live. And ANY dialogue would have subtitles, they didn't pick and choose. And since the music was seemingly part of the film itself, that's a dead giveaway that it's not from the 1910s or 1920s. It wasn't until The Jazz Singer, released in 1927, that movies started to include sound and/or music and even then it wasn't commonly used for a few more years after that. Also, Steamboat Willie was one of the very first cartoons with sound and/or music, and that came out in 1928 which was 3 years after the supposed last year of that compilation. And I'm almost positive that gloryholes was not a thing back then. But I actually did enjoy the cartoon and its creativeness. But again, the video game Cuphead showed that anyone can recreate the look of 1920s/1930s cartoons. If anyone can prove this wrong, by all means, go ahead. I just don't see how it's possible that a collection of French pornos was able to be preserved in surprisingly high quality for what would have been the time, but also landed in the hands of someone who was able to then upload it onto the internet in 2019.

Have you looked at the stuff available at The Wayback and its parent operation? Why would you be surprised that things survive? People are inherently Packrats, attics hold boxes and trunks, what happens when grandpa dies? Museums hold stuff that no one sees. FILMS, such as Napoleon are restored by people who find footage in vey odd places. It would not be hard to add sound to a flick, and unless you SEE the actual film that was used, you have no way of knowing if it was recopied to a magnetic track film, or added via video lan. And remember this....a french whorehouse in Paree has a fucking bench built so that an overweight English King could Do the nasty and get his Ass licked at the same time. They've protected THAT thru TWO World Wars.

addendum: sound recordings have been made since the 1870s, the Kinescope almost as long. The printing press, with moveable type, since the 1500s; that could and did print Musical Scores. The idea of combining some aspects of these things was just another modern miracle....but it was one of many. People cling to things they believe are of value, long after the worth fades.

 

[saddlebum66]

Yes, the internet has certainly brought practices that most people didn't even know existed to the spotlight and made it easier to create moral panics. I would however disagree with you when you say that this push comes primarily from religious people. Most countries in Europe are socially liberal and functionally non-religious nowadays and in the US religiosity is dropping fast even if it still a considerable cultural and political force. Furthermore a lot of these anti-bestiality laws are pushed by animal rights activists who want to protect animals from 'rape and abuse' (rather than punish offenses against god and religion). I've even seen gay activists criticize countries like Japan and Hungary because "they ban gay marriage but they still don't have laws against bestiality".

Youre welcome to disagree, but where do you think those "Rights" movements come from? Europe is absolutely in the Churches' grasp. Pick your flavor, but the history of Crusade is always just under the surface. In the US, today, its even worse. The lunatic fringe is on the march, though theyve been normalized as "the Religious Right"..... they provide leadership and legitimacy to the holy cause of saving us from ourselves. Its not new...messianism is a disease, but in the ancient days, the Essenes had a Messiah school in the dead sea area. Time honors the tradition.

 

[Gorgik91]

View attachment 156888

This picture is originally a bronze age stone carving from the west coast of Sweden, to be more precise from Tanum in Bohuslän. The picture was used on the cover of Swedish historian Jens Rydström's PhD-dissertation "Sinners and Citizens. Bestiality and homosexuality in Sweden, 1870-1950."

 

[PigFarmer1]

What I find intriguing is that until fairly recently zoophile acts were legal in most places. In fact they were made legal in many countries in the 60s and 70s when sodomy laws were abolished in Europe. Sure, it wasn't exactly socially accepted but it's only since the 2000's that there's suddenly been this huge outcry and push for laws and crackdowns.

I think it happened because bestiality was suddenly available on internet.

 

[canecorso]

What I find intriguing is that until fairly recently zoophile acts were legal in most places. In fact they were made legal in many countries in the 60s and 70s when sodomy laws were abolished in Europe. Sure, it wasn't exactly socially accepted but it's only since the 2000's that there's suddenly been this huge outcry and push for laws and crackdowns.

Because for most normals, the suffix "-philia" is evocative of "pedophilia" and that's enough to convince them to throw you under the bus.

 

[Deleted member 166329]

Damn, history is getting more and more interesting

 

[saddlebum66]

Because for most normals, the suffix "-philia" is evocative of "pedophilia" and that's enough to convince them to throw you under the bus.

Dont know about that, since theres "Philadelphia" " Hemophilia " " Philately" and the like. Unless you were born before the net, you might not realize it, but most of what makes up our little taboo...was never expressly "legal". That is a myth. These acts were just not expressly "Illegal" but were in fact prosecutable under the category "Sodomy"....which was expressed legally as anything other than Missionary Sex. In some States, it's still expressed as such. Laws against a thing usually don't happen until something is perceived to be a problem. While Bestial acts were basically thought of as Mythology, and thus fictional, there was nothing about it to be feared by the outside World. Practitioners were rarely caught, unless they were being sought for other, criminal, acts. One exception to this is Witchcraft, which has been tied by various religions to animals deliberately. Witches have their Fetches....Harry Potter's was Hedwig...who were said to feed at a Witch's Tits, and served as her connection to the Devil.

When the Net made its appearance, many people of many persuasions found ways to profit. Porn was a big jumpstarter of E-business, until the payment transfer systems had been developed and proven secure. Then little by little, those systems were legally used to shut porn sales down...and that began a campaign to make certain things illegal all over the World.
Throw us under the bus? Nooo....they wouldnt dirty the bus wheels that way.

 

[Juan Lobo]

Because for most normals, the suffix "-philia" is evocative of "pedophilia" and that's enough to convince them to throw you under the bus.

Therefore instead of calling it "zoophilia" we should call it "zoosexuality"

 

[ADreamOfLiberty]

I have used the search function on this thread and the whole website, so that's my due diligence and if this is already posted it can be deleted.

So I was watching this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-TyUIc5Gro, I love channels like this BTW. I can never get enough history/anthropology.

If you don't want to watch it these people called the Moche lived on the west coast of south america (Inca territory) but they were before the Inca. They made ceramics/pottery with explicit sexual content. When he said that it included all sorts of things including animals I immediately looked it up. I have never seen bestiality explicitly depicted in the pre-columbian Americas.

Now I have:

This is a crop from a full picture display which can be found here.

I think he's a dog, I can't find exactly what it is and there aren't any better pictures I can find, someone could go to this display and get more angles. The reason I think he's a dog is the spots. Not many animals have spots in general, a jaguar perhaps but the snout and tail are wrong. Now look at the dogs they had around at the time:

I don't know the gender of the human. Apparently a theme with this erotic pottery is anal rather than vaginal penetration.

In researching I found this quote:

and intercourse between human females and mythical animals (such as the bat and the jaguar who both had special religious connotations in Moche culture).”

I couldn't find the bat depiction with a human female described. The article could mean this image but probably another with an obvious jaguar is meant.

As we well know the penis from this 'dog' isn't right for either a dog or a cat, being a generic cylinder. This could just be lack of detailing or it could indicate this is more theory than practice for the artist. Certainly the other examples had very detailed human anatomy sometimes, and sometimes human anatomy (which must have been well known) was reduced to a boring cylinder.

In the same display we see this:

I think that's a cat, the only indication I have is the ears which are definitely not human.

Here we can see a humanoid god with a jaguar tail. It's a big image.

An example of some good old fashioned mouse on mouse action:


Can we conclude from this that the Moche were practicing bestiality? No deductively, but remember how much evidence they had that Alexander of Macedon was homosexual before they started publishing it all over the web.

What we can say is that the concept was not alien to these people. One could easily make a strong case that only the blind would not notice the fact that sexuality is a common factor with animals, but it helps to have a complete record of it.

This all but disproves the never-advanced-but-now-hopeless hypothesis that some post-ice age pervert invented the idea.

I wouldn't bring these people up as a shining beacon though, like all olmec derived civilizations they seem to consider ritual killing kosher.

 

[Macropos]

Quite beautiful, i would love a replica. What does the text on the first one say?

 

[ADreamOfLiberty]

Quite beautiful, i would love a replica. What does the text on the first one say?

Well I included it in the picture in case one our french speakers could read it. I do not know french, and the text is not entirely clear. I read through it at first looking for any mention of the animal, gender, etc... I thought it was far more generic talking about funeral practices and stuff. Here is my copy of the text google translation (I once again repeat I don't know french, I cannot correct the spelling off the top of my head in the cases I couldn't read the letters, don't laugh too hard):

La ceramique est l'heritage le plus important que nous alent laisse les cultures peruveinnes

Elle est constituee pour une grande part d'offrandes funeralres qui etalent deposees dana les sepultures

Le culte funeralres des anciens peruviens se rattache a la croyance universelle d'une survie outre-tombe, de l'lmmortalite de l'ame, d'une projection de la force vitale au deja de is mort.

Ceramic is the most important heritage that peruvein cultures leave us.

It is made up to a large extent of funeral offerings which are laid down in the sepultures.

The funeral cult of the ancient peruvein is linked to the universal belief of a survival beyond the grave, of the lmmortalite of the soul, of a projection of the vital force to the already of is dead.

 

[YanchaOkami]

I think that's a cat, the only indication I have is the ears which are definitely not human.

Can as well be a dog with small ears or long, even fur. The details are somewhat "off" from reality, the artist might not have had any idea how the dogs are built anatomically, aside from what they saw in terms of the fur. Then it might resemble something of the shape of a Shiba Inu.

But the details are even more off regarding a wild (big) cat type, as those rarely bear a thick coating of fur.

You see, if my dog is dry, people call her a beauty and such a floofy elegant built. Ever saw a horrific big mutated rat the size a dog? That's how Siberian Huskies would look without fur or after a bath which soaks the under wool. As such I wouldn't project too much into the missing details of the resembling - what artists capture visually doesn't mean to resemble the reality.

 

[dalmatianlover]

Wow my eyes have been opened, so much history. Hated history in school lol

 

[Taboo Mother]

This was really enlightening. Thank you.

 

[Candu]

Thru history in every religion pagan or non described and depicted intercourse with animals.

 

[canecorso]

For any spanish speakers around here, have a look at this please:

LA VIDA SEXUAL DEL GAUCHO: EL SECRETO DE LA PAMPA eBook : Higgie, Nelida: Amazon.es: Libros

LA VIDA SEXUAL DEL GAUCHO: EL SECRETO DE LA PAMPA eBook : Higgie, Nelida: Amazon.es: Libros

www.amazon.es

Mas alla de lo que la tradición y el folclore han propuesto y dispuesto sobre la epopeya del hombre rural de la pampa rioplatense, hay otra figura que la realidad histórica la impone.
El Gaucho homofóbico, xenofóbico y machista que ha diseñado el moderno concepto, nada tiene que ver con el hombre real que practicaba sin prejuicios, la homosexualidad, la zoofilia y otros vicios desechables en su concepto moderno.

I don't speak spanish myself, so... anybody here have this book (or are willing to get it)? Can you tell me more it? Does it stand up as historically trustworthy or is it just some pulp fantasy about pervy gauchos?

 

[S480nY]

i think this goes on for ages

 

[astraa119]

This was really enlightening. Thank you.

I have often wondered how many of my relatives were zoos.

 

[astraa119]

Wow my eyes have been opened, so much history. Hated history in school lol

If this had been taught I wouldn’t have missed a day

 

[AppleDash]

For any spanish speakers around here, have a look at this please:

LA VIDA SEXUAL DEL GAUCHO: EL SECRETO DE LA PAMPA eBook : Higgie, Nelida: Amazon.es: Libros

LA VIDA SEXUAL DEL GAUCHO: EL SECRETO DE LA PAMPA eBook : Higgie, Nelida: Amazon.es: Libros

www.amazon.es

I don't speak spanish myself, so... anybody here have this book (or are willing to get it)? Can you tell me more it? Does it stand up as historically trustworthy or is it just some pulp fantasy about pervy gauchos?

I haven't read this particular study - my Spanish is still a work in progress - but in one of her articles, Miletski mentioned a study on gauchos in Brazil and Uruguay. This study claimed that "bestiality" was part of the gauchos' lives as a herdsmen's or rural tradition, but only as some sort of initiation and not a regular activity.

 

[arcticwolf69]

For any spanish speakers around here, have a look at this please:



I haven't read this particular study - my Spanish is still a work in progress - but in one of her articles, Miletski mentioned a study on gauchos in Brazil and Uruguay. This study claimed that "bestiality" was part of the gauchos' lives as a herdsmen's or rural tradition, but only as some sort of initiation and not a regular activity.

no other living thing but animals for miles, no easy access to women.
I bet money it IS a regular occurrence, just you get older and more discreet about such things

 

[Roxank9]

A few years ago, I watch a sensible, normal documentary about Roman gladiators. All good and vanilla (and very interesting). At one point, the aspect of pleasing the crowd was reviewed. This was early showbiz, after all. People wanted to see more ferocious lions, more athletic gladiators, indeed more of everything. If watching humans losing their lives was viewed as entertainment (albeit the modern Hollywood action movie is the equivalent nowadays), the bar was set low on what would be permitted. And that included slave girls, according to the documentary, herded into the arena to be mated by dogs as the crowd cheered and jeered to show the depravity of barbarians. I would love to say the slave girls were granted their freedom and paraded on shoulders through the streets for their magnificent role in zoophilia history. Sadly, no such luck. After being mated, they had their throats cut. To those about to mate, we salute you.

Bestiality in roman society was not reserved to the arena and not often used as punishment a number of roman historians wrote in passing on the subject, as did some greek historians

 

[Hopalong]

Thanks for this thread and for the many contributions to it, it is very interesting and has led me down several different paths for followup reading. I have always been particularly interested in mythology and how people have always created larger than life stories to try to explain human behavior, and to control (repress) behavior. That includes zoo of course, because just as this thread discusses, yep people throughout history have been doing this, too. So both tendencies are out there, to want to express it, and to try to repress it.

One Greek myth that I don't think has been mentioned here is the story of Pasiphaë, who was the wife of Minos, King of Crete. As the story goes, Minos pisses off Poseidon, who of course doesn't punish Minos directly, but instead decides to take it out on his wife Pasiphaë by giving her a desire to have sex with a bull. The idea of the story, in this case, being to bring her down in stature by partaking in something "unnatural." And the result of their mating is the Minotaur, a symbol of dark, bestial, repressed parts of human nature.

Personally, I like the lesser known parts of the story which are Pasiphaë's reaction. She tries her best to nurture Asterion (the Minotaur), makes a potion that causes Minos to spurt out scorpions and millipedes when he has sex with other women, and in her spare time tries to ovethrow the gods. She is a badass, and all I can say is "you go, girl."

Quite a story! As with many of the myth stories, as wild as they can be and whatever the intent of the storyteller, they end up showing that human nature is wild and can't be stopped.

 

[Mannimal]

So to think all of this is slowly but surely getting outlawed in numerous places world wide ..... Sad that the history that mankind wants erased, they'll try their best to erase ..... But hey that's how the government works I guess ..... I'm glad I grew up on a farm ..... Wouldn't change it for the world .....

 

[milabue]

I am convinced that Diogenes of Sinope was probably a zoo.

If he was, then you know he would have practiced because he rejected all social conventions, and he was deliberately subversive. You know that, if he thought he could get someone's goat by fucking a dog in public, he probably would do it just on account. In fact, Diogenes was convinced that squeamishness was among the primary defects of the human race and was really an unpardonable fault.

In fact, I would even speculate, adventurously, that his zooishness may have been the inspiration behind his entire philosophy, and his philosophy inspired Zeno of Citium to found the philosophy of Stoicism, which is the very foundation of the modern concept of social justice...or any kind of equality based justice at all, frankly.

I had never considered that about Diogenes. Hmmm... Worth thinking about. Thanks!

 

[Txcowboy23]

I have strong ideas that powerful men in history have had female spouses that enjoyed animals. Ranging from ancient Egyptian pharaohs to United States presidents and Wall Street Titans.

I think it’s possible men achieve a peaceful sense of mind knowing their wives are sexually satisfied anytime, without other random people involved.

 

[knottymelbourne]

I have strong ideas that powerful men in history have had female spouses that enjoyed animals. Ranging from ancient Egyptian pharaohs to United States presidents and Wall Street Titans.

I think it’s possible men achieve a peaceful sense of mind knowing their wives are sexually satisfied anytime, without other random people involved.

LOL this is pure fantasy you've made up in your mind to justify your own fetish you have absolutely zero proof of this.

 

[Txcowboy23]

LOL this is pure fantasy you've made up in your mind to justify your own fetish you have absolutely zero proof of this.

I’m not trying to prove anything to anyone

To my own personal knowledge, it was common theme for Egyptian royals. If you ever found time to delve into that part of history I’m sure you would find it.