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Where should I go? (Leave the United States?)

Where should I go?

  • Stay in the United States

    Votes: 36 69.2%
  • Leave the United States (go to a country like Mexico, Japan, etc.)

    Votes: 16 30.8%

  • Total voters
    52

Zoo50

Citizen of Zooville
Firstly, I'm in the U.S. There have been many anti-zoo laws passed in the United States in the past few years, and now there are only four U.S. states left where sex with animals has not been banned it (they are Hawaii, New Mexico, West Virginia and Wyoming). The District of Columbia also has not banned it. I worry that those four states that have not banned it yet will ban it within the next few years.

Originally, I wanted to move to Nevada because it had no anti-zoo law. Then Nevada banned it in 2017. After Nevada banned it, I decided I wanted to move to Kentucky because it had no law banning sex with animals. Then this year (2019), Kentucky banned it. Now I want to move to West Virginia, but I worry that West Virginia will ban it soon (in fact, West Virginia and Hawaii both currently have anti-zoo bills in their legislatures).

All of these new laws are really bad -- they allow the government to confiscate and kill one's pets, they mandate huge fines and long prison sentences, they mandate sex offender registration, and they prohibit people who are caught from owning animals again. In addition, new laws like the one in Kentucky make sex with animals a felony (while in other parts of the state, animals are legally treated like garbage -- they are slaughtered, hunted, etc.)

These laws are wrong. If nothing is done to stop these laws, it will be illegal in all of the U.S. What then? Should I move to Mexico, Asia, or Eastern Europe? At a certain point, it will be either "have sex with animals in the U.S. illegally", or leave the country. Is it worth it to leave the United States entirely? I don't want to do things illegally (i.e. in a state that has banned it), but all of these new laws are making it harder and harder to move to a zoo-legal place.

I hate these laws, but I don't know how to fight them.

By the way, for those who think I should stay in the United States, which state should I go to? (The anti-zoo laws are terrible in pretty much all of them).

Also worth mentioning: the United States has the world's highest incarceration rate, and it has public sex offender registries.

The following response was made by Sweepslap in the old Zooville (Zooville 1.0):

"Even in states where bestiality is "legal" theyll still try to prosecute for some round about version of animal abuse.

Thing is though, as long as youre not physically filmed, caught in the act, trying to solicit an untrustworthy source, fence hopping, uploading content, or outright being dumb where someone could catch you ACTUALLY doing something, youre fine.

THATS the beauty of freedom of speech. You can say that "do" whatever, but unless someone can physically prove something, you can literally fall back FOREVER on "I just like to indulge in realistic fantasy. I have never doing xyz and never will." and no one can prove otherwise.

Dont do any of the aforementioned stuff, keep your real identity and the identity of your pet safe and secret, put your phone/camera/laptop away if youre planning to have fun (to prevent someone hacking in and recording) and just live your life. Theres LOTS that goes on behind closed doors outside of beast sex that is very illegal."
 
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Zoo50

Citizen of Zooville
Think south, way south like Columbia.
You mean Colombia (the country)? I think that country banned it (despite the zoo culture in some parts of that country). Most of Latin America has banned sex with animals, but the Dominican Republic and some parts of Mexico have not banned it (as far as I can tell). If I'm wrong, someone can correct me. Much of eastern Asia has not banned it, but Indonesia has been trying to ban it recently (probably due to influence from the HSUS).
 

FeralLovin'

Citizen of Zooville
I'd say, stay in the U.S. I get not wanting to be a law breaker. I've been called a "goody 2 shoes" on more than one occasion. I don't even speed if I can help it. But some laws are bogus. If anything, look into a state that has a low cost of living and find a steady place to work there that you might be happy doing for the long term. Then find a place away from the general population to live to keep things private and maintain good online safety as to not be outed and have that seriously affect your real life.

I don't want to say, "hide who you are," but even though zoo might not be illegal in another country, the social backlash of being out or outed there can be bad too. And even if the authoritys won't do anything, there's always the chance of some vigilante trying something stupid. There's a lot of risk being a zoo, but if you play it safe, there shouldn't be many problems.
 

Zoo50

Citizen of Zooville
I'd say, stay in the U.S. I get not wanting to be a law breaker. I've been called a "goody 2 shoes" on more than one occasion. I don't even speed if I can help it. But some laws are bogus. If anything, look into a state that has a low cost of living and find a steady place to work there that you might be happy doing for the long term. Then find a place away from the general population to live to keep things private and maintain good online safety as to not be outed and have that seriously affect your real life.

I don't want to say, "hide who you are," but even though zoo might not be illegal in another country, the social backlash of being out or outed there can be bad too. And even if the authoritys won't do anything, there's always the chance of some vigilante trying something stupid. There's a lot of risk being a zoo, but if you play it safe, there shouldn't be many problems.
I completely agree that the anti-zoo laws are bogus. They aren't just bogus, they're also irrational and immoral.

Originally, I wanted to go to a zoo-legal state, but the way things are going, with more and more U.S. states banning it, it looks like I'll be stuck in a state that has banned it (that is, if I stay in the U.S.) I agree that not being outed is the highest priority.

Also, would writing a public zoo blog on the Internet be risky? (In other words, not playing it safe?) As I said in a different thread, I've thought about writing an anonymous zoo blog, but I also don't want to draw attention to myself, so I am in conflict. One person said "if you don't own animals and never will, then you can make a zoo blog." Is that sound advice, or not?

Why leave the country ? Just be quiet and discreet and you’ll be safe
Even if you go to a country where it’s legal your not going to go public with it are you ? Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean it’s acceptable
Like I said, there are some things that only the U.S. has that aren't good (such as the U.S. having the world's highest incarceration rate, and the public sex offender registries that zoos sometimes end up on). I wouldn't be public about being zoo wherever I went, but in a place where it was legal, at least I would have peace of mind that I wasn't doing anything illegal.

One issue with going to a Latin American country is that I'm not good at speaking / writing in Spanish (or Portuguese in the case of Brazil) -- in the U.S., because everything is in English, I don't have to worry about the language issue. There might also be cultural issues.

I'm sure there's no data, but I wonder what percentage of zoos in the U.S. are currently incarcerated -- is it a high percentage, or a low percentage? (As I said, probably not enough data, since most zoos are in hiding)
 
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FeralLovin'

Citizen of Zooville
I completely agree that the anti-zoo laws are bogus. They aren't just bogus, they're also irrational and immoral.

Originally, I wanted to go to a zoo-legal state, but the way things are going, with more and more U.S. states banning it, it looks like I'll be stuck in a state that has banned it (that is, if I stay in the U.S.) I agree that not being outed is the highest priority.

Also, would writing a public zoo blog on the Internet be risky? (In other words, not playing it safe?) As I said in a different thread, I've thought about writing an anonymous zoo blog, but I also don't want to draw attention to myself, so I am in conflict. One person said "if you don't own animals and never will, then you can make a zoo blog." Is that sound advice, or not?
I'm not super sure how blogging works myself, but if you kept things anonymous, you are vague on stuff that might be back tracible and you don't have other accounts scattered around that might cross with your blog that could expose vital details that could out you, I couldn't see why not.

Did you plan on putting the blogs here or somewhere else? I know I was a bit worried about people catching me posting stuff here. But I just keep my phone safe, only put my writings here since I've seen too many furs flip shit over feral/anthro pairings elsewhere, and I even made sure my dog had some "work" done before I took photos and video of him for here. Just what I do to keep myself anonymous here, but also being able to post content here and not be outed.
 

inaki

Lurker
Could you tell me more about how it is banned in the US? I mean does it count now as a felony or what?
 
M

mares4me

Guest
It doesn't really make sense to move to a different country for zoo-related reasons alone.
 

pferdefreund

Citizen of Zooville
Uhmm, ZTHorse - your "Germany" is completely outdated.

Also, it doesn't make sense to optimize for this alone. As Mares4me etc say. One shit-throwing outrage campaign later, and the life you build for 10 years in a foreign country is now invalidated again, because they pulled the most precious rug from beneath your feet and made it illegal. or more illegal.

Instead, look for opportunities to earn money and or become the best you can be. Have the zoo part flow in as secondary or "also" important judgement points. Is it easy to rent a stable or pasture (alone) there? Is the potential sentence (if caught) a death sentence or a mere money-fine? Is the weather nice, the land cheap etc...
 

Dire-Phoenix

Tourist
Pferdefreund has a very valid reasoning, I have lived in 2 states that have outlawed zoophilia yet I have had no issues... While yes I wish I could be open about my relations, even if legally nothing could be done, people are going to be all up in arms about me and thus be just as bad, if not worse then if I were to have legal troubles.
 

Zoo50

Citizen of Zooville
Could you tell me more about how it is banned in the US? I mean does it count now as a felony or what?
It is illegal in 46 U.S. states (and 2 U.S. territories) as of 2019. It is a misdemeanor in about half of the states, and a felony in about half of the states (some states like Wisconsin have very persistent anti-zoo legislators who are trying to make the law a felony). Only states that haven't banned it yet are WV, NM, WY and HI (and DC).

Every year, at least one state bans sex with animals. Last year, LA (the state) banned it, and this year, KY banned it. I fear that soon, it will be illegal in all of the U.S.

Uhmm, ZTHorse - your "Germany" is completely outdated.

Also, it doesn't make sense to optimize for this alone. As Mares4me etc say. One shit-throwing outrage campaign later, and the life you build for 10 years in a foreign country is now invalidated again, because they pulled the most precious rug from beneath your feet and made it illegal. or more illegal.

Instead, look for opportunities to earn money and or become the best you can be. Have the zoo part flow in as secondary or "also" important judgement points. Is it easy to rent a stable or pasture (alone) there? Is the potential sentence (if caught) a death sentence or a mere money-fine? Is the weather nice, the land cheap etc...
That is something to consider -- what if I moved to a foreign country, and then one year later, they ban sex with animals? Then I will have moved for nothing.

All 46 U.S. states that have banned it mandate prison sentences for people caught having sex with animals -- considering that the United States has the world's highest incarceration rate, that's not a surprise. Some U.S. states mandate prison sentences of only a few months, but what if their laws get worse (what if new legislation is passed making those laws worse)? Some Mexican states have lenient anti-zoo laws.
 

Wolfy

Tourist
So then, in your opinion, where should I go?
Honestly, nowhere is okay.

Wherever you go, regardless of if it's legal or not, people around you will not be happy about what you do. Nowhere is safe.

Just find a place that you are happy to call home, regardless of zoo laws in place there. We all here have to tip toe around the law to be safe, just be smart about what you do and you'll be fine.
 

JT Bullitt

Citizen of Zooville
Despite the laws in a lot of states, the US is pretty chill when it comes to letting people do their thing behind closed doors. If you stay under the radar, be VERY selective and careful who you let into your circle, and in general don't give 'them' a reason to look into you, you'll probably be okay.
 

Zoo50

Citizen of Zooville
Despite the laws in a lot of states, the US is pretty chill when it comes to letting people do their thing behind closed doors. If you stay under the radar, be VERY selective and careful who you let into your circle, and in general don't give 'them' a reason to look into you, you'll probably be okay.
I mentioned blogging earlier in the thread -- do you think blogging (making an anonymous zoo blog) would count as being "under the radar"?
 

JT Bullitt

Citizen of Zooville
I mentioned blogging earlier in the thread -- do you think blogging (making an anonymous zoo blog) would count as being "under the radar"?
Hmm, if you have to, but I'd say only, stress ONLY, if you use a completely different persona. Get a VPN so 'they' have a more difficult time tracking you. Use a different screen name, different email address, and do not mention anyone else you connect with by any identifiable info. You're not the only one who is putting themselves at risk!

The better choice would be to use the blogging features of sites that are zoo friendly. I'd suggest not making your own blog, especially on dedicated blogging sites because they will be compelled to assist authorities if requested to do so.
 

ShepherdDogLover

Zooville Settler
If I live in the US, I would stay anyway. Right now, I have a palathera of reasons to leave the EU, hell even the entire european continent if I can, but anti zop laws are by far none of these. I lost interest in meeting most of the people anyway
 

Yez

Tourist
Legislation wise the only western countries even remotely zoo friendly are probably Germany, Finland and Hungary
 

SigmatoZeta

Esteemed Citizen of ZV
The laws are not really all that enforceable. It's not like local police are coming to rig a camera in every pet-owner's home and trying to subject their animals to an exam five times a week.

The thinking people have, when they pass these laws, is that our animals are very traumatized and scared to be touched and maybe covered in cigarette burns or something. They have a very distorted idea of what we are actually doing. They think they're going to go out looking for any and all wretched and abused animals, corner the owners in their homes, and say, "Haha, we caught a zoo."

We're being demonized, and people are not going to go chasing after anything that doesn't look like a demon.

Nobody says,

"Hey! Look at that man walking a perfectly healthy Alaskan malamute over there!"

"Yeah, look how she dances around in a circle whenever she meets a new person!"

"And look at all the eye-contact she is making with her owner!"

"That's a sure sign of a ZOOPHILE!"

"Let's get him!"

No, what they are looking for is a cartoon villain. If you are not a cartoon villain, then these laws are tall-bad, not venti-bad.

Feel free to stay in the US, and look for any small town where you know somebody that reports catching a break from the police a couple of times. Don't do anything extreme, and don't start an animal sex brothel or anything nuts. You'll be fine.
 

Zoo50

Citizen of Zooville
No, what they are looking for is a cartoon villain. If you are not a cartoon villain, then these laws are tall-bad, not venti-bad.

Feel free to stay in the US, and look for any small town where you know somebody that reports catching a break from the police a couple of times. Don't do anything extreme, and don't start an animal sex brothel or anything nuts. You'll be fine.
What does "cartoon villain" mean? Can you clarify that? Also, do you also recommend any particular region (or state) of the U.S.?

As JTBullitt said, starting a zoo blog may be too risky. Also, attempting to date a zoo in real life (by using the personals section of a zoo website) may be too risky, as there have been police operations involving that in the past (especially in Arizona).
 

ZTHorse

Administrator
Staff member
Uhmm, ZTHorse - your "Germany" is completely outdated.

Also, it doesn't make sense to optimize for this alone. As Mares4me etc say. One shit-throwing outrage campaign later, and the life you build for 10 years in a foreign country is now invalidated again, because they pulled the most precious rug from beneath your feet and made it illegal. or more illegal.

Instead, look for opportunities to earn money and or become the best you can be. Have the zoo part flow in as secondary or "also" important judgement points. Is it easy to rent a stable or pasture (alone) there? Is the potential sentence (if caught) a death sentence or a mere money-fine? Is the weather nice, the land cheap etc...
Germany its legal, the supreme court confirmed it.


As long as the animal isnt harmed. It was on the down-low they affirmed our rights. Most didn't notice it.
 

SigmatoZeta

Esteemed Citizen of ZV
What does "cartoon villain" mean? Can you clarify that? Also, do you also recommend any particular region (or state) of the U.S.?

As JTBullitt said, starting a zoo blog may be too risky.
What I mean is this:

A "cartoon villain" is an unrealistic caricature of an evil person. Think of "The Wicked Witch of the West." People that are out on a witch-hunt are looking for a witch. If you are not a witch, then you are probably at least somewhere in the general territory of safe.

And frankly, I would not focus so much on starting a blog. Instead, I would start an in-person meet-up group. Find people that live near you, and make arrangements to meet them Platonically on the first Sunday of every month or if you want to every single week. Just meet as friends, and talk just like we are talking here.

Online social media, where strangers shout at other strangers, is not really the future of social media. It's really outdated, and it's quite frankly a waste of time. The future of social media is in direct involvement. It's in getting stuff to happen IRL and getting it to happen fast.
 
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JT Bullitt

Citizen of Zooville
What does "cartoon villain" mean? Can you clarify that? Also, do you also recommend any particular region (or state) of the U.S.?

As JTBullitt said, starting a zoo blog may be too risky. Also, attempting to date a zoo in real life (by using the personals section of a zoo website) may be too risky, as there have been police operations involving that in the past (especially in Arizona).
Even if a state (or country for that matter) does not have laws specifically addressing bestiality, overzealous authorities can still use the "animal abuse" umbrella. Suppose though that even if you were caught up in bullshit charges, just the fact that you got picked up for bestiality would get your name blasted all over the news, social media, and everywhere else. Loss of your good name and reputation might be devastating, even if you don't go to jail for it.

So I'll reiterate my advice, keep under the radar, stay safe and secret, and don't give anyone a reason to put you under the microscope.
 

Zoo50

Citizen of Zooville
Even if a state (or country for that matter) does not have laws specifically addressing bestiality, overzealous authorities can still use the "animal abuse" umbrella. Suppose though that even if you were caught up in bullshit charges, just the fact that you got picked up for bestiality would get your name blasted all over the news, social media, and everywhere else. Loss of your good name and reputation might be devastating, even if you don't go to jail for it.

So I'll reiterate my advice, keep under the radar, stay safe and secret, and don't give anyone a reason to put you under the microscope.
Some other threads made recently have discussed the possibility of zoos organizing themselves into groups, for the purpose of creating a zoo support network. Is that too risky?

Also, it's interesting that most people (in the poll) say I should stay in the United States.
 
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