Spaying contracts

R

Riffraffroff

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Any way to avoid spaying contracts for canines? Say I were to consider buying a husky or some other dog. Most breeders in the USA administer some form of neuter/spay contract which requires your pet be spayed and such, if I’m not mistaken. Are your dogs Unspayed/un-neutered? If so, how did the adoption process go?
Another rookie question here: spaying/neutering ensures the dog cannot orgasm, right?
Please feel free to tell me some valuable insights, as I’ve never really went into the adoption process or properly researched it enough to fully understand.
 
Any way to avoid spaying contracts for canines? Say I were to consider buying a husky or some other dog.

Sure, pick a better breeder. Seriously, that's largely a sign of someone who doesn't want competition and almost certainly isn't breeding quality dogs. Red flags like that make you wonder what else they're hiding.

Most breeders in the USA administer some form of neuter/spay contract which requires your pet be spayed and such, if I’m not mistaken. Are your dogs Unspayed/un-neutered? If so, how did the adoption process go?
That's not a common thing in most of the US, it's a sign of a puppy mill or a rescue org.
Neutering (male or female) is common for rescues, but one has to expect that; they got the animal as unwanted and are trying to prevent more unwanted animals being created.

That said, there's no reason to not consider a neutered dog. Companion first, sex if possible later. This applies more to females than males, but both *can* still have desires and be interested in sex, it depends on when they were neutered and if they had any positive experiences beforehand. In general, bitches spayed after reaching adulthood will usually be capable, though might not be receptive of sex. Males can be a bigger gamble. I have a male now who was neutered years ago, it hasn't slowed him down, but he was a fully grown adult and he'd had use of his equipment before losing his balls (was medically necessitated, we tried really, really hard to avoid it)

If you're serious, look to your local kennel club or breed specific rescues.
Breed specific rescues are, IMO a better choice than a generic rescue. They know the breed and can be good resources to help you, but they will aslo usually have higher expectations, so understand the breed and it's challenges.

Another rookie question here: spaying/neutering ensures the dog cannot orgasm, right?

You have to understand it from a development perspective. If they're neutered before puberty, their brains don't develop the proper way for sex, so it's largely going to be a "no", but if neutered later in life they typically can, but the caveat of males/females mentioned earlier applies, some males lose all desire, some don't nd not all females will be receptive either.

Please feel free to tell me some valuable insights, as I’ve never really went into the adoption process or properly researched it enough to fully understand.

Honestly, read as much as you can NOW. When you have the dog and need to know how to train or work with various issues it's easier to do when you've at least got an idea of what to do before having to do it. I would recommend reading the AKC site (you mention the US, so presume you're there), UKC, or if not in the US, whatever your local Kennel Club is. Not endorsing any particular registry, but the info is usually good and well presented. Understand the breeds you're considering, talk to breeders...more than one. Ask them what they're selecting for, how their dogs perform, health problems, ask to see the dogs they're breeding and if they say no, find someone else. Only reason to not show a dog is to hide problems, don't reward shitty people for making shitty dogs.

Get a copy of Karen Pryor's "Don't shoot the dog" (shitty title, fantastic book). It's older, but it is a very, very good book to start with. Seriously, go to ebay if money is tight and search for it, buy a copy (newer versions are better, but I read the original version), read it. Read it again when you get your dog. I've given away I can't tell you how many copies.

For a zoo, I would largely recommend avoiding neutered dogs, but it's not a hard no. Again, best friend first. Pick a dog that matches your lifestyle, don't get a big fluffy dog because you think it looks sexy if you live where it's hot and you don't have A/C. Don't get a high enrgy dog if you're going to sit on the couch and watch videos or play games. This is a companion and should be your best friend for the next 10-15 years or more, don't rush in. Take your time, pick carefully and your chances of having the best relationship will be improved. Talk to others who have the breeds your interested in (zoo or not) and ask them about problems they have had and for zoos, what zoo-specific problems you might need to be aware of with that breed. For example, "Huskies are great. Fuckable? Sure".....reality is....not all are.

Nothing to be embarassed or ashamed of for not knowing, everyone starts out ignorant. Ask questions until you think you understand.

Are you hoping to get a male or a female?


Edit: FFS, I swear I can spell. Maybe if I keep saying that it'll come true. (holy shit, I even misspelled "true")
 
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Basically neutering will not take the capability of orgasming, just the capability to breed. But it will take out the impulse to start anything sexually, so, as stated above, if he already was used to sex, there is a chance of happening, but do not count on it.

don't get a big fluffy dog because you think it looks sexy if you live where it's hot and you don't have A/C.
*looks at thermometer, 30°C in the morning*
*looks at dog lying flat on the ground*

Guilty as charged :D
(ok, it was not cause he was sexy, -which he is-, but because I needed a cattle friendly breed)
 
Any breeders not registered don't have contracts and nobody is going to make you otherwise. It will be harder because you are looking for a pure bread. I recommend searching on pet classifieds websites most of the adds there seem legit and lots of animals sold on there are not neutered with no contract.
 
Sure, pick a better breeder. Seriously, that's largely a sign of someone who doesn't want competition and almost certainly isn't breeding quality dogs. Red flags like that make you wonder what else they're hiding.


That's not a common thing in most of the US, it's a sign of a puppy mill or a rescue org.
Neutering (male or female) is common for rescues, but one has to expect that; they got the animal as unwanted and are trying to prevent more unwanted animals being created.

That said, there's no reason to not consider a neutered dog. Companion first, sex if possible later. This applies more to females than males, but both *can* still have desires and be interested in sex, it depends on when they were neutered and if they had any positive experiences beforehand. In general, bitches spayed after reaching adulthood will usually be capable, though might not be receptive of sex. Males can be a bigger gamble. I have a male now who was neutered years ago, it hasn't slowed him down, but he was a fully grown adult and he'd had use of his equipment before losing his balls (was medically necessitated, we tried really, really hard to avoid it)

If you're serious, look to your local kennel club or breed specific rescues.
Breed specific rescues are, IMO a better choice than a generic rescue. They know the breed and can be good resources to help you, but they will aslo usually have higher expectations, so understand the breed and it's challenges.



You have to understand it from a development perspective. If they're neutered before puberty, their brains don't develop the proper way for sex, so it's largely going to be a "no", but if neutered later in life they typically can, but the caveat of males/females mentioned earlier applies, some males lose all desire, some don't nd not all females will be receptive either.



Honestly, read as much as you can NOW. When you have the dog and need to know how to train or work with various issues it's easier to do when you've at least got an idea of what to do before having to do it. I would recommend reading the AKC site (you mention the US, so presume you're there), UKC, or if not in the US, whatever your local Kennel Club is. Not endorsing any particular registry, but the info is usually good and well presented. Understand the breeds you're considering, talk to breeders...more than one. Ask them what they're selecting for, how their dogs perform, health problems, ask to see the dogs they're breeding and if they say no, find someone else. Only reason to not show a dog is to hide problems, don't reward shitty people for making shitty dogs.

Get a copy of Karen Pryor's "Don't shoot the dog" (shitty title, fantastic book). It's older, but it is a very, very good book to start with. Seriously, go to ebay if money is tight and search for it, buy a copy (newer versions are better, but I read the original version), read it. Read it again when you get your dog. I've given away I can't tell you how many copies.

For a zoo, I would largely recommend avoiding neutered dogs, but it's not a hard no. Again, best friend first. Pick a dog that matches your lifestyle, don't get a big fluffy dog because you think it looks sexy if you live where it's hot and you don't have A/C. Don't get a high enrgy dog if you're going to sit on the couch and watch videos or play games. This is a companion and should be your best friend for the next 10-15 years or more, don't rush in. Take your time, pick carefully and your chances of having the best relationship will be improved. Talk to others who have the breeds your interested in (zoo or not) and ask them about problems they have had and for zoos, what zoo-specific problems you might need to be aware of with that breed. For example, "Huskies are great. Fuckable? Sure".....reality is....not all are.

Nothing to be embarassed or ashamed of for not knowing, everyone starts out ignorant. Ask questions until you think you understand.

Are you hoping to get a male or a female?


Edit: FFS, I swear I can spell. Maybe if I keep saying that it'll come true. (holy shit, I even misspelled "true")
Thanks for all the info! And yes, I plan on one day adopting a female. Something I'd like to add though. A neutered/spayed dog to me is a complete deal breaker. Of course, I understand the "best friend first" precedent, but I'd be lying if I said I don't plan on said pet being a mate as well. It is entirely possible to have both at the same time, and that is my wish. It might be years down the line before I actually adopt however, so by then I've had plenty of time to make good decisions. No need to rush into this.
 
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Any breeders not registered don't have contracts and nobody is going to make you otherwise. It will be harder because you are looking for a pure bread. I recommend searching on pet classifieds websites most of the adds there seem legit and lots of animals sold on there are not neutered with no contract.
What kind of websites would be “pet classified?” Are you referring to something like Craigslist? Because if so, I have been checking that website out and it seems promising.
 
A neutered/spayed dog to me is a complete deal breaker. Of course, I understand the "best friend first" precedent, but I'd be lying if I said I don't plan on said pet being a mate as well.

Of course, few here would choose a companion where there was zero possibility of sex, but as I had mentioned, neutered, especially with bitches spayed later in life, does not remove that possibility. I've had bitches who were spayed, my last was spayed and there was very little effect on our sexlife. Key is to ensure she was spayed *after* reaching adulthood, it's becoming more common as there are a slew of developmental issues that are linked with early spay.; still one needs to choose carefully.


What kind of websites would be “pet classified?” Are you referring to something like Craigslist? Because if so, I have been checking that website out and it seems promising.

I would suggest using caution when choosing to buy a companion from a pet classified website. One can get a healthy and happy pup that way, but one can also get an absolute wreck of a pup that way who will have health and behavoral problems. It's important to select carefully, look for OFA testing for both parents at a minimum. The big issues to look for will be breed specific, so read up, check the OFA website and talk to breeders and others who have that breed. It's soul crushing to invest so much love into a companion and see them sometimes live misreable lives and die young. I'm not saying that's a certainty with a dog from such a source or that getting one from a reputable breeder is a guarantee of long life and good health, but the odds are much more in your favor.
 
What kind of websites would be “pet classified?” Are you referring to something like Craigslist? Because if so, I have been checking that website out and it seems promising.
 
Personally, I would not get a pup from breeders that require this, even if they had an option to pay for the "rights" to keep them intact. I view it like requiring a sort of long-term torment for the pup, I would take this as far as even cropping and docking... just don't want to support it in any way.

I have found one pup on craigslist, the other through connection with other zoos.
 
Breeder I got my dog through was part of a Club/Organization that has it in their ethics that they require you fix the dog after a specific time period unless specified before getting them. Some breeders do this to prevent bad dogs from being bread in the future. Horror stories of a random guys buying massive amounts of dogs in order to breed, then sell them in some get rich quick scheme. So, some, if not most clubs may require a spay/neutered contract in the beginning. However, if you specify you want the option to be able to breed the dog in the future (not fix them) some may be open if you and the dog meet certain standards. This is to make sure you're not breeding a dog with health problems and again this could be negotiated beforehand. Typically, I'm skeptical of any breeder that just gives me whatever I want in exchange for cash. Point is, don't be afraid to bring it up with any breeder beforehand.
 
Neuter/Spay contracts are not red flaggy, they're typically a green flag in the purebred dog community. It's normal for a reputable registered breeder to not want people to breed their dogs willy-nilly and it's used as a preventive measure for that. Unfortunate for us though. I think finding smaller newer breeders who do the right things but don't have a big reputation to worry about is a good start. They're still in their humble beginnings. Have reasons to back your request up such as the negative changes to their coat and not wanting to have unnecessary surgeries done on your dog. It helps it you can prove you're responsible through references.
 
Neuter/Spay contracts are not red flaggy, they're typically a green flag in the purebred dog community. It's normal for a reputable registered breeder to not want people to breed their dogs willy-nilly and it's used as a preventive measure for that. Unfortunate for us though. I think finding smaller newer breeders who do the right things but don't have a big reputation to worry about is a good start. They're still in their humble beginnings. Have reasons to back your request up such as the negative changes to their coat and not wanting to have unnecessary surgeries done on your dog. It helps it you can prove you're responsible through references.
A serious breeder will almost always have conditions where breeding rights can be sold. Some of the mastiffs I was looking at would be about 2k for a PB English, if you wanted to retain breeding rights it was usually 1-1.5k on top of that. There are some that will want you to have a track record of having show dogs, other breeding experience. Etc.

That being said, there is no shortage of small breeders (backyard Karens as well) who have a serious holier than thou attitude about it.

In my experience the show breeders out there are usually the worst about it. If they compete, they view you as potential competition if they are selling from champion bloodlines. It's not completely unwarranted but when they view the dogs as their source of income... Yeah...

Funny enough where I live there was someone selling registered Boer goats, they sold a billy to someone nearby who was only going to use it for his small farm/food goats but he was unregistered... Turns out they ended up selling their boer for stud at half the price of her services. She only found out about it when she asked one of her regulars if they were in need of breeding services for their does. Apparently the locals mostly breeding for meat didn't care much about the "registered" part if the discount was half off.
 
A spay or neuter contract is pretty standard with serious show and sport breeders. It isn't about competition, more about ensuring that if anyone is breeding their dogs, they trust that person to do health testing and breed responsibly.

So I wouldn't say it's a hard no. In fact these breeders are likely to be raising healthy thoughtfully produced dogs. Maybe discuss ovary sparing spay or a vasectomy. More and more studies are coming out about the importance of sex hormones for overall health and specific conditions in dogs so it won't be a red flag for the breeder.
 
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