God or Universe - Which is bigger?

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BlueBeard

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Is this a "zoo" topic? Absolutely. All zoos are people, and this is a problem many of us people have.

See, younger zoos, I don't have birthdays anymore -- I have "countdowns." So this is on my mind a lot. After this life, what's my next great adventure? Or is there one....

(Sorry, my atheist and agnostic friends. I might not have left you room to comment in this thread, given its topic).

Well. I used to be such a piously religious man. Oh, I was the church's biggest believer. Long since lost my faith in the church, but I'm struggling to maintain my faith in a god. I think it was much, much easier 2,000 or more years ago to believe. The world was flat. It had a dome over it with pinholes that were stars. And rain came from it somehow. All was good.

To be the creator of that and all beneath it would be a huge sign of just how powerful, just how omnipotent that god must me. But... it was fathomable. It was a plausible enough a story, though a stretch of the imagination.

Damn it all to hell -- in our infinite quest to "know shit," we discovered just how vast the universe was, how insignificant our world, much less the creatures that inhabit it. No, we're *still* trying to discover how vast it is. But what we've learned so far is astounding.

Astrophysicist (and atheist?) Carl Sagan demonstrated just how insignificant we are, our Earth is, in his “Pale Blue Dot” description of the planet: a photograph showing the Earth as a tiny dot, about 1/10th of a pixel in size, suspended in the vast emptiness of space.

So... now... to believe in a single Creator is to wonder, "What the heck? Why the hugely unnecessary "backdrop" for our itty bitty existence? Is the god of *us* the god of all *that*?

We are an invisibly infinitesimal speck of dust in a solar system that can't really be detected in the Milky Way, much less the vastness of the universe -- or universes. I walk out to my dirty old pickup truck and imagine it this way. There's that truck. In a driveway. In a city. In a county. In a state. In the contiguous United States. On a continent. On a globe of continents. And somewhere near the rear quarter panel on my truck, just above the dent above the chrome on the fender, is a clot of dirt. And in that clot of dirt clings a single, tiny little grey mote of dust. And on the mote of dust... live 7.5 billion beings, not counting the uncountable other beings of different species.

And there is one, solitary Creator in charge of all of this -- and he not only knows but cares for each of those 7.5 billion beings and will judge them when they die, deciding if they live with him or go to hell.

I'm lost.

Tell me, are you lost, too? -- Or how do you still have faith in a god, given all of that?
 
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Also wanted to say that the idea of "god" is nothing more than a way to control people's minds. It's very easy to control them when you raise them thinking that they are, by nature of being born, "inherently evil", and have them submit to a "god" who he alone can save them. Despite being the same entity that condemns them and will end their lives for "disobedience". Some "creator".

It would actually make more sense to say that the universe itself is "god", and that we too are a part of "god", as we exist in it. Why this viewpoint? Because, unlike the "god" of the Bible, the fact exists that the universe exists, we exist in it, and if we didn't, we sure as hell would not be here. (Granted, no one here is omnipotent, and that's fact-based. Remember, facts don't apply to the "god" of the Bible.)
 
Pretty much the usual meaning: Bewildered. Confused. "Lacking assurance or self-confidence"
 
Also wanted to say that the idea of "god" is nothing more than a way to control people's minds. It's very easy to control them when you raise them thinking that they are, by nature of being born, "inherently evil", and have them submit to a "god" who he alone can save them. Despite being the same entity that condemns them and will end their lives for "disobedience". Some "creator".

It would actually make more sense to say that the universe itself is "god", and that we too are a part of "god", as we exist in it. Why this viewpoint? Because, unlike the "god" of the Bible, the fact exists that the universe exists, we exist in it, and if we didn't, we sure as hell would not be here. (Granted, no one here is omnipotent, and that's fact-based. Remember, facts don't apply to the "god" of the Bible.)
And that may be exactly the answer: "The universe itself is god." And that "we are god." Or conversely, god *is* the universe. A powerful difference in meaning, the one I'm leaning toward, personally.

But I am hoping for responses from "the faithful." Atheist viewpoints (I believe) I have down pat. Looking for my bible-based or "churchy" brethrens' means of reconciling these facts. Not looking for debates on whether god exists or not. How do people who believe in a god deal with this?

Stand by. Could be a very enlightening discussion. (Or not). I sure hope so.
 
The thing is, I am what some people call "agnostic." I don't like that term, because literally translated, it means, "without knowledge." There is a difference between knowing and knowledge itself, so I simply say, "I don't know if there is a 'god'." Personally I don't believe in one though, so that may mean I'm "atheist" bases on the belief.
 
Hmm... Is it okay to add a scientific perspective to this? Maybe even "metaphysical", but not exactly Christian?
 
Hmm... Is it okay to add a scientific perspective to this? Maybe even "metaphysical", but not exactly Christian?
My post was for "the faithful," not really to elicit points of debate from atheists or agnostics. Christians mostly, but from any monotheist who continues to believe faithfully there is a god -- despite the revelations of science.

To hear more from agnostics or atheists only piles onto what I've already arrived at.

I'm desperately looking for anything that can restore my faith. And I don't see it. I'm asking help with that.

But I understand. If you post a topic in here, it will draw what it will draw. Free speech. People need freedom to respond as they see fit, and I'm totally cool with that.

I'll listen to what you have to say, my friend. I value your opinion. After all, you and I probably agree on this. My time is up. It was an awesome ride. I had a rich and fulfilling life. No human is guaranteed the joys I've known; everyone deserves it. I am a happy, OVERWHELMINGLY, satiated human being. I have lived a principled life. I have lived a balanced life. I have known pleasures other human beings only ever DREAM of, and whose descriptions they would take as merely fiction. Oh well.

If there *is* a god of us, I have incidentally served him (her? it?) very, very well. I have been compassionate and forgiving. I have shared whatever gifts I have with others.

But dammit -- this idea that all I know, all I've experienced, the "coolness" I achieved, when I die... is... "deleted" like the stripping of a memory device. "Next, please."

Me no like it.

I'd very much like reason to believe what I *am* carries on, goes forward. And I ain't seeing much reason to have any hope of that. I think when my eyes close for the last time.... I cease to exist.
 
Well, from a scientific perspective, even when you have passed, the body will still exist. And remember, the universe is also made up of matter/energy, which cannot be created or destroyed. Just changed. You will still exist, just not as you do now. In a changed state.

Now for a crossover viewpoint, we are all conscious beings. Technically you can't get consciousness from an unconscious object. So with that said, you may very well be conscious, just without a body.

From a metaphysical viewpoint you'll be in your soul at that point. I can't answer what that's like, I wouldn't know.

Hopefully this helps...
 
Well, from a scientific perspective, even when you have passed, the body will still exist. And remember, the universe is also made up of matter/energy, which cannot be created or destroyed. Just changed. You will still exist, just not as you do now. In a changed state.

Now for a crossover viewpoint, we are all conscious beings. Technically you can't get consciousness from an unconscious object. So with that said, you may very well be conscious, just without a body.

From a metaphysical viewpoint you'll be in your soul at that point. I can't answer what that's like, I wouldn't know.

Hopefully this helps...
Thanks, Pillar. Although it's really not the answer to my burning question, I appreciate your answer and your perspective.

I'd like to return now, though, to conversations involving the faithful. How do you folk hang on? I need you. I'm anxious for your replies.
 
Your answer is, "yes". God and the universe are not the same (remember "let there be light?") If both are infinite in any dimension then a size comparison is meaningless.

On the real question, "No." Even something as ephemeral as your posts on the site will remain in the web archive for decades. The people who read them will last even longer. Decisions you've made will shape the universe in small ways forever.

What I can't tell you is whether or not you will be aware of it. They call it "the Undiscovered Country" for a reason. I can't even promise you that will and memory will remain united. All I can say is that all of us will join you there some day.
 
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Your answer is, "yes". God and the universe are not the same (remember "let there be light?") If both are infinite in any dimension then a size comparison is meaningless.

On the real question, "No." Even something as ephemeral as your posts on the site will remain in the web archive for decades. The people who read them will last even longer. Decisions you've made will shape the universe in small ways forever.

What I can't tell you is whether or not you be aware of it. They call it "the Undiscovered Country" for a reason. I can't even promise you that will and memory will remain united. All I can say is that all of us will join you there some day.
Love you, man. Appreciate it more than you can know.
 
Thank you. It's been a subject very much on my mind lately. Don't hesitate to PM if you need to talk.
Thank you. It might be a little while, but I'm going to take you up on that. The thread "Tribute to Zooville Zoos"? -- I nearly mentioned you on that but was focused on keeping it short (my new priority, since I tend to be long-winded).
 
I believe there is a creator simply because the universe is running down with entropy. Its finite and had a start, a beginning.

There has to be something outside of the 2nd law of thermodynamics that isnt running down with entropy to be able to make this universe. Otherwise the eons of time before and after now would have run out of useful energy by now.

Thats where I leave my faith.
 
Is this a "zoo" topic? Absolutely. All zoos are people, and this is a problem many of us people have.

See, younger zoos, I don't have birthdays anymore -- I have "countdowns." So this is on my mind a lot. After this life, what's my next great adventure? Or is there one....

(Sorry, my atheist and agnostic friends. I might not have left you room to comment in this thread, given its topic).

Well. I used to be such a piously religious man. Oh, I was the church's biggest believer. Long since lost my faith in the church, but I'm struggling to maintain my faith in a god. I think it was much, much easier 2,000 or more years ago to believe. The world was flat. It had a dome over it with pinholes that were stars. And rain came from it somehow. All was good.

To be the creator of that and all beneath it would be a huge sign of just how powerful, just how omnipotent that god must me. But... it was fathomable. It was a plausible enough a story, though a stretch of the imagination.

Damn it all to hell -- in our infinite quest to "know shit," we discovered just how vast the universe was, how insignificant our world, much less the creatures that inhabit it. No, we're *still* trying to discover how vast it is. But what we've learned so far is astounding.

Astrophysicist (and atheist?) Carl Sagan demonstrated just how insignificant we are, our Earth is, in his “Pale Blue Dot” description of the planet: a photograph showing the Earth as a tiny dot, about 1/10th of a pixel in size, suspended in the vast emptiness of space.

So... now... to believe in a single Creator is to wonder, "What the heck? Why the hugely unnecessary "backdrop" for our itty bitty existence? Is the god of *us* the god of all *that*?

We are an invisibly infinitesimal speck of dust in a solar system that can't really be detected in the Milky Way, much less the vastness of the universe -- or universes. I walk out to my dirty old pickup truck and imagine it this way. There's that truck. In a driveway. In a city. In a county. In a state. In the contiguous United States. On a continent. On a globe of continents. And somewhere near the rear quarter panel on my truck, just above the dent above the chrome on the fender, is a clot of dirt. And in that clot of dirt clings a single, tiny little grey mote of dust. And on the mote of dust... live 7.5 billion beings, not counting the uncountable other beings of different species.

And there is one, solitary Creator in charge of all of this -- and he not only knows but cares for each of those 7.5 billion beings and will judge them when they die, deciding if they live with him or go to hell.

I'm lost.

Tell me, are you lost, too? -- Or how do you still have faith in a god, given all of that?
This is just me but:
I feel that it dosent matter either way(god or not that's a whole nother conversation), in that we as humans have only slight control over anything realy.

We can only control ourselves and try to guide our lives tword stress free happy living.
Here in the USA we are spoiled and realy are ignorant to what we realy got.

The only thing we can do is live happy, and die free.
Some ppl can't even do that in most of the world and that in my oppinon is the extent of control we have as humans.

We can't even fathom our galaxy let alone anything that would be able to CREATE such a thing.

How could we know how. Said: GOD would want us to live. 'Get baptized or YOUR baby's soul will never enter heaven...type shit'

In my oppinon, putting myself in his shoes:
Say I created 'US' I would watch, thats it.

I would feel: that I would want you to get to my level at your own... After all experience is a teacher if you can learn from your mistakes.

As far as anything else it, like my oppinon is mere speculation and we have not the capacity to even begin to understand the big G.

Either way it don't effect me cause:
I love my friends, I love my life, I love my family even in spite, I cherish each day and I cherish each night..cause one day it will end, but not tonight.

That's a little something I live by

A little piece of me that I give to you all
 
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It would be "universe" over "God", even though I believe in God...at least from some of the oldest written theological texts on this planet, which is all too often misportrayed as "Norse Mythology".

You see, Norse Mythology (that is to say the Elder Edda) actually comes from Old Icelandic, on stone tabs that predate the dead sea scrolls, and like the Greek, and Roman mythologies, have been verified by specialists (archaeologists, paleontologist, and theologists) to be accurate pre-christian documents of the Creator (aka "God").

The Norse Myth is perhaps the one and only most accurate description we have of how God himself came into existence. Explaining that there was a void, and in the void formed a cow (known as the Urcow - which is actually where the tradition of cows being sacred in Islam actually comes from) and the cow licked this block of ice in the space void to form Ymir (which is Chronos in Greek - and is also "Bor" depending on which translation derivative you are getting the translated text from), whom mated with an "Ice maiden" and gave birth to Odin (Oski in Old Icelandic - which is Zues in Greek). Zues/Odin whom had a son (Mithris/Thor/Hercules/Christ before incarnation in John 3:16), and a Djinn created by fire (Loki/Lucifer/Satan/Cupid) before the great war in Heaven, these three beings rose up and slew God's father.

The written myths tell us the universe existed before God, and that even conscious beings existed before God. The creation stories from all sources would need the universe in existence before the creation of man, beast, and Earth also...which all we know from various creations in myths and religions is that man, beast, Earth, sun, moon, etc were created and not the universe itself.
 
It would be "universe" over "God", even though I believe in God...at least from some of the oldest written theological texts on this planet, which is all too often misportrayed as "Norse Mythology".

You see, Norse Mythology (that is to say the Elder Edda) actually comes from Old Icelandic, on stone tabs that predate the dead sea scrolls, and like the Greek, and Roman mythologies, have been verified by specialists (archaeologists, paleontologist, and theologists) to be accurate pre-christian documents of the Creator (aka "God").

The Norse Myth is perhaps the one and only most accurate description we have of how God himself came into existence. Explaining that there was a void, and in the void formed a cow (known as the Urcow - which is actually where the tradition of cows being sacred in Islam actually comes from) and the cow licked this block of ice in the space void to form Ymir (which is Chronos in Greek - and is also "Bor" depending on which translation derivative you are getting the translated text from), whom mated with an "Ice maiden" and gave birth to Odin (Oski in Old Icelandic - which is Zues in Greek). Zues/Odin whom had a son (Mithris/Thor/Hercules/Christ before incarnation in John 3:16), and a Djinn created by fire (Loki/Lucifer/Satan/Cupid) before the great war in Heaven, these three beings rose up and slew God's father.

The written myths tell us the universe existed before God, and that even conscious beings existed before God. The creation stories from all sources would need the universe in existence before the creation of man, beast, and Earth also...which all we know from various creations in myths and religions is that man, beast, Earth, sun, moon, etc were created and not the universe itself.
This would mean that universe is bigger than God, but that does not mean God did or could not engulf the universe at some point in past or future, either before or after another being could or will.
 
For the record, I fully believe in the scientific method, got an engineering degree, and yet still believe in God.
Mathematically speaking, the odds overwhelmingly favor the existence of a creator. Physically speaking, our universe’s constants - the speed of light, for example - are set so perfectly that any change at even the tiniest imaginable range would cause things to fall apart. The universe as we know it wouldn’t exist. I think that places God above the universe.
As for all the disproven “facts” about our universe that sadly got into our religious texts - these books were written a long time ago, when people couldn’t even possibly imagine or comprehend many of the things we take for granted today. They made mistakes, and we corrected them. And we’re still making mistakes that are getting corrected.
I believe God created the universe, and science is our way of learning how that creation works. Sometimes we’re just wrong, and some people are too arrogant to admit when they’ve been proven wrong and that’s why incorrect statements still get preached.
 
For the record, I fully believe in the scientific method, got an engineering degree, and yet still believe in God.
Mathematically speaking, the odds overwhelmingly favor the existence of a creator. Physically speaking, our universe’s constants - the speed of light, for example - are set so perfectly that any change at even the tiniest imaginable range would cause things to fall apart. The universe as we know it wouldn’t exist. I think that places God above the universe.
As for all the disproven “facts” about our universe that sadly got into our religious texts - these books were written a long time ago, when people couldn’t even possibly imagine or comprehend many of the things we take for granted today. They made mistakes, and we corrected them. And we’re still making mistakes that are getting corrected.
I believe God created the universe, and science is our way of learning how that creation works. Sometimes we’re just wrong, and some people are too arrogant to admit when they’ve been proven wrong and that’s why incorrect statements still get preached.
You sound like Isaac Newton. If I'm not mistaken he believed he could use mathematics to prove the existence of God. And I'm curious as to why you think arrogance is why incorrect views are pushes, last I checked that was due to ignorance. Personally I find agnosticism to be the most rational view on God as nobody has proven or disproven the existence of any God or Creator. For all we know this is either some unfortunate happenstance we all live in, and just as equally likely there could be more than one God that created the Universe. Doesn't the Hindu religion have, like, 20 Gods or something like that?
 
You sound like Isaac Newton. If I'm not mistaken he believed he could use mathematics to prove the existence of God. And I'm curious as to why you think arrogance is why incorrect views are pushes, last I checked that was due to ignorance. Personally I find agnosticism to be the most rational view on God as nobody has proven or disproven the existence of any God or Creator. For all we know this is either some unfortunate happenstance we all live in, and just as equally likely there could be more than one God that created the Universe. Doesn't the Hindu religion have, like, 20 Gods or something like that?
Part of it is ignorance, yes, but part of is it stubbornness and fear of change. The whole “things were different back then” argument.
And don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying I can prove any deities exist and I respect your choice to be agnostic - after all, “if you can’t prove or disprove it then it’s not worth debate” - but between my findings and my personal experiences I’m leaning toward that there is. Which interpretation I follow is my personal choice.
And depending on how you define “god”, Hinduism has one, or three, or thirty-three, or… yeah it’s complicated, at least as far as my limited knowledge on the subject allows me to understand it. Fun fact though, some people believe Christ was an avatar of a Hindu god.
 
Part of it is ignorance, yes, but part of is it stubbornness and fear of change. The whole “things were different back then” argument.
What do stubbornness and fear of change have to do with the confirmation of God's existence? I'm genuinely curious as to why you believe this. If I knew God was real then I'd have to change my claim from agnostic to saying "God is real," due to the simple fact that the knowledge of God's existence is now known. And I am not sure what you mean by "things were different back then."
 
No, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying that some people are led to doubt God because some believers unfortunately keep blabbing on about other things that have been disproven, like the world being flat and 6000 years old. All I tried to convey is that people who want to believe shouldn’t let those individuals stop them.
Some of those people are just ignorant and uneducated, but some of them have access to the facts and are either too stubborn to modify their beliefs, or would rather believe conspiracies… this is leaning toward dumpster fire content so I’ll leave it there lol, but hopefully that gets my point across
 
No, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying that some people are led to doubt God because some believers unfortunately keep blabbing on about other things that have been disproven, like the world being flat and 6000 years old. All I tried to convey is that people who want to believe shouldn’t let those individuals stop them.
Some of those people are just ignorant and uneducated, but some of them have access to the facts and are either too stubborn to modify their beliefs, or would rather believe conspiracies… this is leaning toward dumpster fire content so I’ll leave it there lol, but hopefully that gets my point across
Fair enough.
 
For the record, I fully believe in the scientific method, got an engineering degree, and yet still believe in God.
Mathematically speaking, the odds overwhelmingly favor the existence of a creator. Physically speaking, our universe’s constants - the speed of light, for example - are set so perfectly that any change at even the tiniest imaginable range would cause things to fall apart. The universe as we know it wouldn’t exist. I think that places God above the universe.
As for all the disproven “facts” about our universe that sadly got into our religious texts - these books were written a long time ago, when people couldn’t even possibly imagine or comprehend many of the things we take for granted today. They made mistakes, and we corrected them. And we’re still making mistakes that are getting corrected.
I believe God created the universe, and science is our way of learning how that creation works. Sometimes we’re just wrong, and some people are too arrogant to admit when they’ve been proven wrong and that’s why incorrect statements still get preached.
You sound like Isaac Newton. If I'm not mistaken he believed he could use mathematics to prove the existence of God. And I'm curious as to why you think arrogance is why incorrect views are pushes, last I checked that was due to ignorance. Personally I find agnosticism to be the most rational view on God as nobody has proven or disproven the existence of any God or Creator. For all we know this is either some unfortunate happenstance we all live in, and just as equally likely there could be more than one God that created the Universe. Doesn't the Hindu religion have, like, 20 Gods or something like that?


I agree with both in parté. I will say (again in other wording and more directly my views, which I base of studies of comparative/world religion(s), world theology, and comparative mythology) is that I believe "God" to have created what we perceive as the universe. The contents of OUR Universe.

Did he create his "wife" which also happens to be his biological sister? Did he create his two biological brothers mentioned across all cultural platforms (as well as hinted in even Genesis' plurality of creation)? Did he create the create the Fates/Norns? At least from a textual perspective of what we have from "ancient history".

Let us ask: "what exactly is the universe". Perhaps a varying perception on what the universe is may change your opinion on which is bigger? All sources tell us the creator exists within the universe, and we know only one universe exists. In fact I can confirm from sources of Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, Edwin a Abbott, and Nikola Tesla (after hunches that were obtained from studies of Norse and Greek mythology) that the "universe" is a compilation of 42 dimensions of space, each of which contain 3 sub-dimensions known as height, width, and depth. Each dimension corresponding to another quantam-physically (just like nerve endings).

It is quite possible that God created this universe, but the fact remains to that if he did, it would be directly identical and linked to his own; a simulacra.
 
I agree with both in parté. I will say (again in other wording and more directly my views, which I base of studies of comparative/world religion(s), world theology, and comparative mythology) is that I believe "God" to have created what we perceive as the universe. The contents of OUR Universe.

Did he create his "wife" which also happens to be his biological sister? Did he create his two biological brothers mentioned across all cultural platforms (as well as hinted in even Genesis' plurality of creation)? Did he create the create the Fates/Norns? At least from a textual perspective of what we have from "ancient history".

Let us ask: "what exactly is the universe". Perhaps a varying perception on what the universe is may change your opinion on which is bigger? All sources tell us the creator exists within the universe, and we know only one universe exists. In fact I can confirm from sources of Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, Edwin a Abbott, and Nikola Tesla (after hunches that were obtained from studies of Norse and Greek mythology) that the "universe" is a compilation of 42 dimensions of space, each of which contain 3 sub-dimensions known as height, width, and depth. Each dimension corresponding to another quantam-physically (just like nerve endings).

It is quite possible that God created this universe, but the fact remains to that if he did, it would be directly identical and linked to his own; a simulacra.
What a fascinating viewpoint you have. But let's pretend this is true, if this is just a vague representation, what does it represent? The universe in its current manner of existence doesn't really indicate a love of any kind, but rather a material existence of the survival of the fittest.
 
What do stubbornness and fear of change have to do with the confirmation of God's existence? I'm genuinely curious as to why you believe this. If I knew God was real then I'd have to change my claim from agnostic to saying "God is real," due to the simple fact that the knowledge of God's existence is now known. And I am not sure what you mean by "things were different back then."
I never believed in God until I had a paranormal experience...made me believe in things beyond my physical reality, and of course I wanted answers so I read the Elder Edda, and then found out it had so many things in common with the Bible, like plurality with beings creating Earth and humans, the great feast of Abraham being identically to a great feast in the Elder Edda, and of course one God followed the goddess Hel into a "ring of fire" for the sake of love, then in revelation we see "death and Hell follows" which through my studies I have learned that this refers to the god Death and the Goddess Hel, and not actual Death and He'll (as a location).

Finding that these two sources shared so much in common, of course sparked a many-a-year research into various religions and mythologies, all sharing so much in common in identicalities.

Heck Celtic mythology even. How are the Tatha De Denan any different from the Aesir, the Titans? I mean we can look at any religion or any mythology, and it tells us the exact same thing as the next...how? Did they have trees that worked like telephones or something? All these prechristian sources weren't copied from each other thought the whole planet, there must be some inkling of truth to them, otherwise how did they come into existence and all say the same thing across ancient cultures?

That simple fact was enough to get me to believe in God.
 
the plural universes are much much larger that any human could possibly comprehend if a higher being tried to implant that knowledge into our heads we would be stuck in a catatonic state. there are probably trillions of alien species out there and the closest one is probably 10x outside of our observable universe with civilizations soo advanced they would laugh at us for using light as a measure of distance. sorry for my rant but people who dont believe aliens and higher powers exist are just ignorant higher powers are just things so big soo powerful that we cant comprehend so gods are just what people made up to explain what they can do in simple terms just like how they explained solar eclipses as the gods being angry. thank u for listening to my ted talk
 
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