Cultural acceptance of bestiality is inevitable

B

BlueBeard

Guest
It's not here yet. But it's coming. It has to. Why was it ever considered wrong?

I think like all taboos, it's rooted in an presumption that a penis and vagina should be considered more than body parts. Otherwise, why would there be anything remarkable about enjoying these rapturously pleasureful parts, even interspecies sexual play? That, and a twisted notion of what constitutes "abuse."

Remember that masturbation was for a spell called "self abuse." Doesn't that sound strange today? It's pretty much accepted now as neither here nor there morally.

Now it's, "It's *your* penis/vagina/anus... go have fun. *We* don't care what you do with it. (but send pics, please?)." LOL

Peeling back layer after layer of sexual taboo "add ons," I think we're inevitably heading for the time when all adult/adult sexual activity is no big deal. Slowly, layer by layer, the sexual taboos are peeling away.

Each layer of taboo focused solely on who does what with whose penis or vagina, and it eventually fell. Each time it was because people realized, "Know what? We're focusing totally on the penis or vagina? We need to let that go."

Do we have any reason left to consider a penis as more sacred -- or more evil -- than your finger or your nose? Isn't a vagina simply another body orifice, part of an interesting landscape we call the vulva? How did it become otherwise for our species? What was that point in the history that changed so much how we looked at these specific organs of the human body? Oh well, we're heading back to it. Finally.

But it's a slow trend, undoing sexual taboos one at a time.

When we've finally gotten to the point where people no longer consider the penis/vagina/anus themselves to be "naughty bits," animal penises/vaginas/anuses will no longer be naughty bits as well. Patting a dog on the head or humping it, just depends on your inclination at that moment.

I think if that's it, then this one will, too -- in spite of a current trend to make it illegal in more states and countries. Maybe *because* of that recent trend, which brings more attention to how bizarre that is, given what's happened to other taboos.

Just a matter of time.
 
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It's not here yet. But it's coming. It has to. Why was it ever considered wrong?

I think like all taboos, it's rooted in an presumption that a penis and vagina should be considered more than body parts. Otherwise, why would there be anything remarkable about enjoying these rapturously pleasureful parts, even interspecies sexual play? That an a twisted notion of what constitutes abuse.

Remember that masturbation was called "self abusing." Doesn't that sound strange today? It's pretty much accepted morally as neither here nor there today. Go for it.

Birth control was "abusing the divinity of the procreative act." That one didn't last, for sure. Catholic Church was a holdout on it, and officially still is today. Its members, though, largely practice birth control any way. Did you know that by their "rules" the elderly or otherwise infertile/barren/sterile couldn't marry, since marriage required sex to consummate it, but it wouldn't leave open the possibility of pregnancy? Yeah. Not talked about much. Not sure if or when that was ever enforced (by denying a couple marriage).

Do we have any reason left to consider a penis as more sacred -- or more evil -- than your finger or your nose? Isn't a vagina simply another body orifice, part of an interesting landscape we call the vulva? How did it become otherwise for our species?

Peeling back layer after layer of sexual taboo "add ons," I think we're inevitably heading for the time when all adult/adult sexual activity is no big deal. Slowly, layer by layer, the sexual taboos are peeling away. We're going backward in time, to a place where we didn't demonize penises and vaginas or anuses (though isn't there a state *still* that has "sodomy" statutes on the book? Probably not enforced much.

In another online community I belong to, there's a forum to discuss sexual taboos. It's usually got 30-40 people showing as active in the chat, but there's no dialog. I rib them all the time that's it's ironic we're in a place to discuss sexual taboos, but 1) All the taboos are normal now, not considered taboo, and 2) The ones that are still taboo, we can't talk about. They're illegal.

They never think I'm talking cannibalism. The IMMEDIATELY pms I get want to talk about either [won't say it even here] or else bestiality.

They are the last taboos. And by that first one, their first assumption is that it's about "lit'luns." Well, see, now that *is* abuse. So that one doesn't count. Then it when it occurs it could be between two closely related *adults*, they're not as fired up. Two 40-year-old cousins? Who gives a shit about that? In 26 states you can marry your first cousin -- and in 19 of those, without exception. Bro/sis, still taboo enough to count.

We're not talking about that one here. Only about the "other" last taboo remaining: bestiality.

Each layer of taboo that had focused solely on who does what with whose penis or vagina eventually fell. And each time it was because people realized, "Know what? We're focusing totally on the penis or vagina?"

I think if that's it, then this one will, too -- in spite of a current trend to make it illegal in more states and countries. Maybe *because* of that recent trend, which brings more attention to how bizarre that is, given what's happened to other taboos.

Just a matter of time.
Lit'luns? What is that?

"I think if that's it, then this one will, too -- in spite of a current trend to make it illegal in more states and countries. Maybe *because* of that recent trend, which brings more attention to how bizarre that is, given what's happened to other taboos."

Please dumb this down by about two notches.

"Just a matter of time."

I hope so.
 
Lit'luns? What is that?

"I think if that's it, then this one will, too -- in spite of a current trend to make it illegal in more states and countries. Maybe *because* of that recent trend, which brings more attention to how bizarre that is, given what's happened to other taboos."

Please dumb this down by about two notches.

"Just a matter of time."

I hope so.
Oh! You reacted to it so fast, you didn't see the edited version. Took that section out. Felt it would catch too much attention and probably get the post flagged. I see by your reaction, it got attention right away! (Little ones).
 
Oh! You reacted to it so fast, you didn't see the edited version. Took that section out. Felt it would catch too much attention and probably get the post flagged. I see by your reaction, it got attention right away! (Little ones).
If it does let me know so I can edit.
 
I do tend to think that EVENTUALLY the taboo will go away, but likely not during my lifetime should I live to "average age". I think it will be another couple of generations, just because that's the way societal changes tend to work.

Zoosexuality first started to gain a level of social acceptance with the Sexual Revolution of the 1960s into the mid 1970s. Then there was a level of repression from the late 1970s until the mid 1990s and the public availability internet access.

Widespread use of the internet ushered in a new phase of zoo accessibility and acceptance which lasted until the mid 2010s which saw the rise of many commercial zoo porn websites, zoo brothels, live zoo sex show clubs, dating websites and forum sites like Zooville and the late Beast Forum. Zoo was even more in the realm of public access and acceptability, like the 1970s where porn stores had a selection of films, videos, magazines and books featuring zoo and "mainstream men's magazines" would have artwork, jokes and occasional "how to" articles about zoo sex.

Then in the mid 2010s the acceptance pendulum started moving the other way and we've seen restrictive laws passed and public acceptability stifled as much or more than what I saw in the 1980s. But availability has not been curtailed this time around. I figure that situation will last another 10-15 years and the pendulum will start back towards acceptance again and hopefully there will be continued availability, because that does promote acceptance.

By that time you younger guys & gals will be talking about "the good old days" of the early 2010s and be looking forward to becoming as out in the open as the gay community was back in the 1980s.
 
I do tend to think that EVENTUALLY the taboo will go away, but likely not during my lifetime should I live to "average age". I think it will be another couple of generations, just because that's the way societal changes tend to work.

Zoosexuality first started to gain a level of social acceptance with the Sexual Revolution of the 1960s into the mid 1970s. Then there was a level of repression from the late 1970s until the mid 1990s and the public availability internet access.

Widespread use of the internet ushered in a new phase of zoo accessibility and acceptance which lasted until the mid 2010s which saw the rise of many commercial zoo porn websites, zoo brothels, live zoo sex show clubs, dating websites and forum sites like Zooville and the late Beast Forum. Zoo was even more in the realm of public access and acceptability, like the 1970s where porn stores had a selection of films, videos, magazines and books featuring zoo and "mainstream men's magazines" would have artwork, jokes and occasional "how to" articles about zoo sex.

Then in the mid 2010s the acceptance pendulum started moving the other way and we've seen restrictive laws passed and public acceptability stifled as much or more than what I saw in the 1980s. But availability has not been curtailed this time around. I figure that situation will last another 10-15 years and the pendulum will start back towards acceptance again and hopefully there will be continued availability, because that does promote acceptance.

By that time you younger guys & gals will be talking about "the good old days" of the early 2010s and be looking forward to becoming as out in the open as the gay community was back in the 1980s.
If zoo was acceptable up until 2010 what exactly changed? I didn't see any religious pushback, was is PETA and "animal rights" or some other groups that made this mess?
 
If zoo was acceptable up until 2010 what exactly changed? I didn't see any religious pushback, was is PETA and "animal rights" or some other groups that made this mess?

That's it right there. The animal rights idiots like ASAIRS (Asshairs) started complaining the web service providers like Yahoo about zoo content and got the hundreds of zoo content groups shut down. Hundreds of local, state, regional, national and worldwide groups and all their content: GONE.

Then they started publicity and lobbying campaigns to get laws changed because zoos were "hurting the poor animals that couldn't say 'NO!'". And now many European countries and most US states have made engaging in zoo sex illegal thanks to the actions of those control freaks
 
That's it right there. The animal rights idiots like ASAIRS (Asshairs) started complaining the web service providers like Yahoo about zoo content and got the hundreds of zoo content groups shut down. Hundreds of local, state, regional, national and worldwide groups and all their content: GONE.

Then they started publicity and lobbying campaigns to get laws changed because zoos were "hurting the poor animals that couldn't say 'NO!'". And now many European countries and most US states have made engaging in zoo sex illegal thanks to the actions of those control freaks
Apparently those retards don't know the difference between zoophilia and zoosadism if they think the zoo community would hurt their animals.
 
If zoo was acceptable up until 2010 what exactly changed? I didn't see any religious pushback, was is PETA and "animal rights" or some other groups that made this mess?

I think certain organizations, such the Humane Society of the United States (and the ALDF), are on a crusade to ban sex with animals in all U.S. states -- they keep pushing their bigoted, unethical agenda, and no one is stopping them (because there are no pro-zoo organizations). Similar anti-zoo organizations are pushing their bullshit anti-zoo agenda internationally.

I believe HSUS has literally been going from one U.S. state to another and getting legislators in those states to ban sex with animals. It's probably why Nevada, Kentucky, Vermont, New Hampshire, Ohio, Alabama, Texas, and others have all banned sex with animals in less than 5 years. (Also, in the past 2 years, California, Wisconsin and Louisiana made new anti-zoo laws).

Legally, things get worse and worse for zoos every year, in the U.S. and elsewhere -- and no one (and no organization) is doing anything to stop it (or fight it).

In the U.S., zoos who are caught may be put on a sex offender registry AND an "animal abuser" registry. (Animal abuser registry laws are brand-new -- in just the past 3 years, more and more states have been making "animal abuser" registries, probably due to activism by HSUS. Because most of society views sex with animals as "abuse", it is highly likely that a caught zoo would end up on such a registry, ruining their life.)
 
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I think certain organizations, such the Humane Society of the United States (and the ALDF), are on a crusade to ban sex with animals in all U.S. states -- they keep pushing their bigoted, unethical agenda, and no one is stopping them (because there are no pro-zoo organizations). Similar anti-zoo organizations are pushing their bullshit anti-zoo agenda internationally.

I believe HSUS has literally been going from one U.S. state to another and getting legislators in those states to ban sex with animals. It's probably why Nevada, Kentucky, Vermont, New Hampshire, Ohio, Alabama, Texas, and others have all banned sex with animals in less than 5 years. (Also, in the past 2 years, California, Wisconsin and Louisiana made new anti-zoo laws).

Legally, things get worse and worse for zoos every year, in the U.S. and elsewhere -- and no one (and no organization) is doing anything to stop it (or fight it).

In the U.S., zoos who are caught may be put on a sex offender registry AND an "animal abuser" registry. (Animal abuser registry laws are brand-new -- in just the past 3 years, more and more states have been making "animal abuser" registries, probably due to activism by HSUS. Because most of society views sex with animals as "abuse", it is highly likely that a caught zoo would end up on such a registry, ruining their life.)
So if there's no one to push back against these groups right now then how do you find a group that can?
 
I believe your right. As the population grows and becomes denser, naturally this leads to more non-reproductive sexual behavior (Mouse colony experiment) so lgbt numbers will increase as well as zoophilia. Its just a matter of time.
 
Change is always inevitable. Change for the worse can happen, too. If we that care about changing things grow complacent while people that only want to engage in bad behavior demonstrate just how toothless the anti-zoo laws are in flagrantly bonkers ways, it can get worse. You could wake up one day in a world just having a large breed dog makes you a suspected criminal to some people in your community, and your world is not as private as it used to be.

Change always is happening, but it is not happening because of forces outside of our control. It is happening because change happens when we do anything at all, be it good, bad, boring, or bizarre. It doesn't matter. Do anything, and you cause change. Do nothing, and you cause change because absence of action is action by omission. You are going to play a role in shaping change, even if you do not know you are.

For the direction that change goes in to be something besides dark and horrible is going to take getting talented people in the zooey community organized and determined to produce a planned well developed social outreach movement. That is already in motion. Experienced professionals and hobbyists to whom zoo otherwise was only a tertiary and forgotten part of their lives are recognizing the seriousness of what is going on and getting involved.

If there is anything you are good at or want to get good at, then pursue it.

This is serious. If the anti-zoo hysteria escalates due to nobody trying to reach out for peace, then kids could get killed because adults were masturbating on the job instead of recognizing danger when it was clearly obvious. I recognize that adult behavior is inevitable, but mature behavior is necessary.

Truth is this: we are one of the most misunderstood minority groups in the country. The problem is not that people hate us for what we are: sure, some do, but those are people that are cruel and sadistic toward anybody if they think they can get away with it.

What is really dangerous is this: The majority of society does not even know that we exist. They know that strange women that train their dogs as prostitutes exist. They know that lunatics that rape toy-sized dogs exist. If you are just a private citizen that is deeply in love with their own dog or horse and never really wanted to subject other people to knowing about that, then because of that, people do not even know that you are there. You wanted to conceal your existence, presumably out of respect toward others. Well, mission accomplished: people are not aware that you exist, and the only thing they know about animal sex is what they hear about people that do not even know what it feels like to have respect toward somebody. When people lash out with these cruel anti-zoo laws, they think it's only going to affect those bozos.

If people at least knew you existed, they still might not like that about you, but they would get the point that you are not in the same category as the people they had in mind.

It is not really respectful toward society to keep secrets from them. You are underestimating them. If you assume that they would behave like barbarians about something they have not really had an opportunity to really process or understand, then that says what you really think of them. That really is not respectful. You do not show respect toward others by assuming the only thing they can be is a heartless ignorant rabble. While you can make them look like that by letting them get fed a lot of distorted impressions and misplaced fears, they deserve a chance to be something better.

At the same time, letting people get the wrong impression about zoos because reasonably sane zoos like you said nothing could lead to a helpless kid, who knows nothing about anything, getting killed by common thugs without their community even realizing that that kid was really innocent of any genuinely serious offense. You are not being respectful by letting that kind of injustice happen.

There is trouble coming, and the only thing that can slow it down (I am not sure it can be stopped before it gets ugly) will be for sane, socially responsible people to start reaching out and trying to get people to understand at least what kinds of people are really getting hurt by these laws. The public deserves a chance to truly comprehend what they are doing. They deserve a chance to avert a tragedy. You can only give them that chance by reaching out. It is your responsibility toward your people, and you should view it as an aspect of your patriotism, too. Your society deserves to be informed about what they are doing and who is really affected.

Every possible kind of change can happen. We can change for the better. We can change for the worse. We can change longitudinally. Either way, change does not stop because change is the only thing you can rely on society to do. It takes your input and your efforts to determine what that change will look like.
 
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Change is always inevitable. Change for the worse can happen, too. If we that care about changing things grow complacent while people that only want to engage in bad behavior demonstrate just how toothless the anti-zoo laws are in flagrantly bonkers ways, it can get worse. You could wake up one day in a world just having a large breed dog makes you a suspected criminal to some people in your community, and your world is not as private as it used to be.

Change always is happening, but it is not happening because of forces outside of our control. It is happening because change happens when we do anything at all, be it good, bad, boring, or bizarre. It doesn't matter. Do anything, and you cause change. Do nothing, and you cause change because absence of action is action by omission. You are going to play a role in shaping change, even if you do not know you are.

For the direction that change goes in to be something besides dark and horrible is going to take getting talented people in the zooey community organized and determined to produce a planned well developed social outreach movement. That is already in motion. Experienced professionals and hobbyists to whom zoo otherwise was only a tertiary and forgotten part of their lives are recognizing the seriousness of what is going on and getting involved.

If there is anything you are good at or want to get good at, then pursue it.

This is serious. If the anti-zoo hysteria escalates due to nobody trying to reach out for peace, then kids could get killed because adults were masturbating on the job instead of recognizing danger when it was clearly obvious. I recognize that adult behavior is inevitable, but mature behavior is necessary.

Truth is this: we are one of the most misunderstood minority groups in the country. The problem is not that people hate us for what we are: sure, some do, but those are people that are cruel and sadistic toward anybody if they think they can get away with it.

What is really dangerous is this: The majority of society does not even know that we exist. They know that strange women that train their dogs as prostitutes exist. They know that lunatics that rape toy-sized dogs exist. If you are just a private citizen that is deeply in love with their own dog or horse and never really wanted to subject other people to knowing about that, then because of that, people do not even know that you are there. You wanted to conceal your existence, presumably out of respect toward others. Well, mission accomplished: people are not aware that you exist, and the only thing they know about animal sex is what they hear about people that do not even know what it feels like to have respect toward somebody. When people lash out with these cruel anti-zoo laws, they think it's only going to affect those bozos.

If people at least knew you existed, they still might not like that about you, but they would get the point that you are not in the same category as the people they had in mind.

It is not really respectful toward society to keep secrets from them. You are underestimating them. If you assume that they would behave like barbarians about something they have not really had an opportunity to really process or understand, then that says what you really think of them. That really is not respectful.

At the same time, letting people get the wrong impression about zoos because reasonably sane zoos like you said nothing could lead to a helpless kid, who knows nothing about anything, getting killed by common thugs without their community even realizing that that kid was really innocent of any genuinely serious offense. You are not being respectful by letting that kind of injustice happen.

There is trouble coming, and the only thing that can slow it down (I am not sure it can be stopped before it gets ugly) will be for sane, socially responsible people to start reaching out and trying to get people to understand at least what kinds of people are really getting hurt by these laws. The public deserves a chance to truly comprehend what they are doing. They deserve a chance to avert a tragedy. You can only give them that chance by reaching out. It is your responsibility toward your people, and you should view it as an aspect of your patriotism, too. Your society deserves to be informed about what they are doing and who is really affected.

Every possible kind of change can happen. We can change for the better. We can change for the worse. We can change longitudinally. Either way, change does not stop because change is the only thing you can rely on society to do. It takes your input and your efforts to determine what that change will look like.
Assuming one would actually do something about it, how does someone go about change without putting a big target on their back if they are zoo? Remember that bestiality is illegal in most states and openly talking about it will likely bring unwanted attention from both those evil people you mentioned and "law" enforcement looking for an easy target to meet their "arrest" quota.
 
Assuming one would actually do something about it, how does someone go about change without putting a big target on their back if they are zoo? Remember that bestiality is illegal in most states and openly talking about it will likely bring unwanted attention from both those evil people you mentioned and "law" enforcement looking for an easy target to meet their "arrest" quota.
I think that @TogglesHappyZoo and others have the right idea about how to get skilled at using social media for outreach, and there is a whole team of people that are involved in the production of their show. They have other projects they and others linked with them are trying to get launched. He, @Lovecat, @Zoo Stories, and others I know are on that project right now. A lot of work goes into the production.

There are already people doing something, and it's not just them. The Zooville team is not just @ZTHorse, but there is a whole team of people, including @dogluver101 and others, behind Zooville. Zooville itself is a method of outreach. We give researchers something to study, so after their first study, they can propose models for deeper research that does not rely so much on convenience samples. If you look at the Articles and Blogs section, here, a large proportion of the research that you see on there happened because of sites like this one.

I am keeping a blog on here going. The reason why is that what I do well is write. I would love to do something like Zooier Than Thou, but I have a stutter and a leaky upper respiratory system that is not about to go away. I know better than to squander time on that which is not within my power that could have been spent on something that actually is within my power and which I can do well and impressively and dependably.

We have many projects that are in motion as of right now, but many of them are slowed down and otherwise hampered by a paucity of manpower. That's not going to stop them, but for shows like Zooier Than Thou, maybe many of them would like to have animated animal characters controlled by face-tracking technology. There is a zoo out there that just took a college course course and did exactly something like that as their final project for that course, and if that person just read this paragraph, there are people working on projects right now that would be enhanced by something that that person has been doing for homework. These projects are in the process of coming together. An everyday person taking an everyday class in an everyday state-funded university can start making a difference in the time it would take to get one of these people's attention. Someone who uses a boring CAD program while working at a boring engineering job could help with the geometry and smoothing.

And that is only what I can think of off the top of my head that maybe someone out there can do.

Projects are in motion as we speak. Some of them have a long way to go. Some of them need one more person with certain talent, skills, and resources in order to be ready to put into action.
 
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That's it right there. The animal rights idiots like ASAIRS (Asshairs) started complaining the web service providers like Yahoo about zoo content and got the hundreds of zoo content groups shut down. Hundreds of local, state, regional, national and worldwide groups and all their content: GONE.

Then they started publicity and lobbying campaigns to get laws changed because zoos were "hurting the poor animals that couldn't say 'NO!'". And now many European countries and most US states have made engaging in zoo sex illegal thanks to the actions of those control freaks
Worth noting that ASAIRS was created by the rather notorious zoosadist, Randy "ZooBuster" Pepe. Pretty telling that bigots were willing to work with an animal torturer to get their agendas passed.

So if there's no one to push back against these groups right now then how do you find a group that can?
Take a look at Germany. They formed ZETA, in order to advocate for zoophiles, and they were able to influence the laws there.



Also, a general "Fuckin' A" to @SigmatoZeta. You are indeed a talented wordsmith.

New episode of ZooTT is being uploaded as we speak. Check it out!
 
Was there anyone involved in ASAIRS aside from Pepe? I was under the impression it was literally just him posing as a group. But then again I just listened to a voice message of Fausty's in which he referred to Pepe's compatriot "Bernard" and vaguely to others. In any case yeah, ASAIRS was a sham run by a dog murdering (and human murdering since his campaign against individual zoos led to some committing suicide) psychopath.

Worth noting that ASAIRS was created by the rather notorious zoosadist, Randy "ZooBuster" Pepe. Pretty telling that bigots were willing to work with an animal torturer to get their agendas passed.


Take a look at Germany. They formed ZETA, in order to advocate for zoophiles, and they were able to influence the laws there.



Also, a general "Fuckin' A" to @SigmatoZeta. You are indeed a talented wordsmith.

New episode of ZooTT is being uploaded as we speak. Check it out!
 
Unfortunately, these petty betrayals happen early in the development of a movement, @Lovecat.

Let me tell you, the LGBT rights movement would have actually started in the 1920's when the Society for Human Rights was started, but one of the cofounders, Henry Gerber, made the mistake of saying, without knowing everything there was to know about his other cofounders, that only gay men should be in the Society for Human Rights. One of them was a bisexual man, though, who was a father and had children, and this guy started making accusations against the gay one about doing lewd things in front of his children (nobody will ever know the full veracity of this), which led to Henry Gerber getting into such serious legal trouble that he lost everything he had and vanished into obscurity.

The entire fiasco created so much of a spectacle that, for an entire generation, gay people in the major cities of the USA were actively repressing gay rights organizations. If somebody talked about organizing, they would say, "No, that doesn't work, look how bad the Society for Human Rights turned out!" and if they didn't get the absolute unwavering commitment to secrecy they wanted out of you, they would cut you off and never talk to you again--and do anything in their power to make sure you were shunned by everyone they knew--because they were afraid you would treat them like Henry Gerber was treated.

Well, the gay people that engaged in this shunning campaign against would-be organizers were, as a matter of fact, extraordinarily successful. With the help of the Great Depression, the entire LGBT community was scattered and demoralized moreso than it had ever been in all recorded history. Their theory was that if they just lay low for a while and operated entirely in secret, people would eventually just peacefully forget they were there.

What actually happened was that the only LGBT anyone ever heard of were those that were too oafish or careless to succeed at following the head-in-the-sand policy, leading to people forming perceptions like these:


The repression was actually mentioned by Mattachine Society founder Harry Hay, who actually had heard that there had been a gay rights organization before only because gay men in Chicago had been using it as an example of why he should give up on the idea of changing society. With Hay, it just backfired. Instead of saying, "I see now that you are right! It can never work, so I hereby take a vow of total secrecy!" he said, "the fact that it ever existed at all only proves that it can be done." Unfortunately, this happened only a generation later, and by then, the damage had been done. The gay rights movement throughout the latter half of the 20th Century was mostly just cleaning up the crisis they had caused by dealing with their early mistakes by sticking their heads in the ground. A lot of that trouble could have been averted to begin with.

Harry Hay had come to recognize that repressing the visibility of gay people was really backfiring...even though the organizational blow-up by the mistakes that were made by the Society for Human Rights led to a backfire from trying to make an emergence, the retaliation against public visibility by the LGBT community itself had actually backfired a lot worse and more violently.

While screwing up at trying to be visible is bad, screwing up at trying to be invisible is worse. Making a mess out of being visible constitutes the lesser incompetence. Neither is really good, but one leaves you with room for making amends.

Ultimately, Hay was right. When the LGBT community started coming out with a sense of relative order, this put them in control of their public image. Maybe they did not always do things for their public image that helped them, but having control meant that there was something they could do about the consequences when they did screw up.
 
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Zoo and beast will never by accepted by society then and its not going to be accepted now or innthe future. Even if zoo was decrimalized, i dont believe for one second that society whom thinks that animals cant consent and cant defend themselves (thats a whole other thinking problem here) will truely by accepted.

This whol trying to get the public to accept us as zoos are only going to lead animals being yanked away from alot of us and killed.
 
Zoo and beast will never by accepted by society then and its not going to be accepted now or innthe future. Even if zoo was decrimalized, i dont believe for one second that society whom thinks that animals cant consent and cant defend themselves (thats a whole other thinking problem here) will truely by accepted.

This whol trying to get the public to accept us as zoos are only going to lead animals being yanked away from alot of us and killed.
THEN WHY ARE YOU POSTING ON A PUBLIC FORUM, LEMMING COWARD!?

This is a public forum. Non-zoos can see everything here. This is publicly available content.

If you want to stick your head in the sand, motherfucker, do it on your own time.

As long as the only thing people know about zoos are scary media scandals where animals have actually been hurt, there will still be mass witch-hunts against zoos going on.

This is exactly what happened in the furry fandom, the Kero the Wolf necrobestiality scandal broke out, and there was a mass witch-hunt against zoos that innocent people that had never been vocal about their sexuality with animals got caught up in, with some people that had never been public about being zoos getting arrested.

Zoos in the fandom had complied with requests by other furs to lie low, so other furs would not get met with public scorn over being conflated with people that have sex with animals. They tamely obeyed. They went along with the charade that the furries maintained with the media that "zoos are not really here, nobody here but us loyal Disney fans!" and yet there thousands of us zoos were in the fandom. When the Kero the Wolf necrobestiality scandal broke out, there was this mass witch-hunt, and a lot of good furs, who had been leaders in the fandom and were beloved members of the fandom, got caught up in it and got their lives destroyed.

Invisibility in the fur fandom did nothing to protect us whatsoever. It just led to a lot of us being concentrated there but not having anybody that was able to advocate for us when the witch-hunting mobs got up in arms.

You do not realize how bad anti-zoo violence could get if we just do nothing.

Sticking your head in the sand is suicidal and self-destructive. I don't know what it's going to take to get you people to recognize that this is a fact.

THIS IS A PUBLIC FORUM. THE WHOLE WORLD CAN SEE WHAT YOU POST HERE.

If you are going to take the route of being a chickenshit head-in-the-sand coward, at least get it right.

Cowardice will get people killed. Incompetent cowardice will get even more people killed. When you assume that you are invisible when you are really not, this leads to your behavior being very bad or at best open to misinterpretation.

If you are commenting on a public forum, you should never forget that you are really addressing the general public, including many non-zoos. People, including people that perform psychiatric research when they are trying to understand patients that have gotten caught having sex with animals or parents that suspect their children of having sex with animals, eventually find forums like this one, and it influences how they deal with zoos in their lives.

With no official literature that comes close to giving them any hope, this is the only textbook they have for dealing with it. They are otherwise lost.

When a non-zoo reads something you post on here, it is probably going to directly influence what happens in the life of a zoo whose mom, dad, psychiatrist, or teacher is trying to understand them, and how you behave and interact on here has everything to do with those people's quality of life.

When a journalist is trying to decide how to report on a story about animal sex, that person might look on this forum to try to get a better assessment of other stakeholders. How you behave just might determine what that journalist says to the world about the rest of us.

What we do on this forum IS public advocacy.
 
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Triggered much? Public forum. No shit Captain Obvious.

I one of the few people that actaully see this for what it truely is and i live in fucking reality unlike most. And yet I a coward because i choose to not look at the world through rose colored glasses?

FUCK YOU!

Your rather emotional response to my message is the reason i didnt read most of it because i too busy looking at your emotional outburst and name calling rather than logic.

The anti zoos are bad regardless of actions.
You are living in a fantasy world if you think your contemptible cowardice is the answer to anything.

If you want to engage in public advocacy, you don't even have to have an adequate sense of honor to lay your neck on the line more than you have just by registering an account and posting here. You don't really have to have more courage than it takes you to talk shit to me.

It takes you being conscious that, whenever you post on a public forum like this one, the world is watching, and what you say can make a difference for better or for worse. What you do on here is being broadcast to the world. This is not a hidden mushroom kingdom where you can dissociate from reality and say and do what you want. This is in the public view.

I question your perception of reality if you are performing the equivalent of drawing a circle of chalk around yourself and pretending the world can't really see you. It would be bad enough if you were just a coward, but being a coward that posts on here that believes that, by some magic, only zoos can see you is quite another.

You are exactly like gay men, in the early-to-mid-20th Century, that were having sex in public parks or on public beaches or in public bathrooms, and they went through their little lives believing that, since gay people went there, nobody else could see what they were doing. They developed a delusion that they were not really accountable for what they did at those places.

The fact that they wanted to hide, to begin with, was just contemptible. The fact that they were incompetent at hiding what they were doing, on top of that, triggered homophobic violence and police crackdowns that destroyed the lives of ordinary people.

When you are in a public place, the world can see you.
 
Zoo and beast will never by accepted by society then and its not going to be accepted now or innthe future. Even if zoo was decrimalized, i dont believe for one second that society whom thinks that animals cant consent and cant defend themselves (thats a whole other thinking problem here) will truely by accepted.

This whol trying to get the public to accept us as zoos are only going to lead animals being yanked away from alot of us and killed.

Many things occur to animals without their "consent" (slaughter, spaying/neutering, etc.) -- so it makes no sense for "consent" (with regard to animals) to only apply to sex. As another member said, in this sense, zoos are being unfairly targeted.
 
All it takes you to make a LITTLE BIT of a positive difference, @Andriodog, is to continue posting on here but posting here with a sense of consciousness that this is a public place that the world can see.

Maybe you could teach people that there is something to us besides the fact that we fuck our animals. For instance, @Zoo50 here is passionate about their vegan beliefs. They and I don't always see eye-to-eye about everything, but any rational observer that saw @Zoo50's posts would never think that that they would intentionally hurt an animal if their life literally depended on it.

You don't really have to stick your neck out more than that. You don't have to risk your own nuts more than you already have just by having an account on here and posting.

The content you put here makes a difference in people's lives, but if you get lured into the belief that you are in a secret mushroom kingdom where only other zoos can see you, I can guarantee that you will fall into bad habits and start putting stuff here that can be taken out-of-context.

Many of the norms of maintream society about animal welfare actually are things we ought to embrace, and we don't really want to reject those norms. We cannot remove from ourselves the fact that we fall in love with our animals, but we don't really want to be separated from the rest of society. Most of us think that, for the most part, society at large is going in the right direction on animal rights, but they are just making a mistake by assuming that we stand in opposition to that. We helped create modern animal rights. It was, to a large extent, our idea.

We do not need people that are convinced that we are some separate world that has different rules from the rest of society. Mainstream views about the care and safety of your animals still apply. Mainstream views about child welfare and safety still apply. We are committed to being responsible citizens. Some of us even want to help permanently put an end to the idea that it's okay to slaughter an animal for any reason at all.

You can show a less noble face to the world if you want to, but that will not change the fact that people, including non-zoos, can see it.
 
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